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Author Topic: Vintage Mic Value Registry: Good Idea?  (Read 20197 times)

Jim Williams

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2010, 11:00:56 AM »

seedyunderbelly.com wrote on Mon, 12 October 2009 19:50

Sorry but this is silly/illogical on several levels.



Only one level is needed here. These are used pieces. There is not a "suggested retail price" for used equipment. It sells for what ever the seller accepts and the buyer wants to pay.

Categorizing such a whimsical event is like trying to catch fish without a rod or net. As soon as the authorities set a value, it will change from free market forces. Yes, there are the "Blue Books" but those prices are also all over the map due to condition and source.

Fashion cannot be predicted in clothing nor microphones, it's fluid. There is no order in the used audio gear market. It's chaos, just the way it should be. Some will pay less, some will pay more, that's natural.
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Jim Williams
Audio Upgrades

Klaus Heyne

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2010, 06:04:12 PM »

The more I think and learn, the less I like. And not only just for the reasons Jim mentions.

Even contemporary mass products, like cars, are not all that well served by services like Kelly Blue Book. Invariably, from personal experience, these numbers don't jive enough with the situation on the ground to make them a basis for decisions.

Flux of demand and supply caused by the economy at large, regional variations, quirks and kinks in the pricing stemming from forum discussions, sudden shifts of fashion, etc. all make this less 'authoritative' and useful than I had hoped for.

Add to this the devil in the detail (re-chromed head basket, anyone?) and you get price fluctuations well into the double digits.

With other words: remotely done estimates of mic values are not a good method for getting realistic pricing.
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

joeyhavoc

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2010, 01:39:40 PM »

Klaus Heyne wrote on Wed, 11 August 2010 17:04

With other words: remotely done estimates of mic values are not a good method for getting realistic pricing.


Price guides have negatively impacted many categories where market value and collectibility meet.  A quick list are stamps, coins, antique tools, sports cards and memorabilia, trading card games, depression glass, and antique furniture.  Typically, adding a price guide hurts these markets instead of helping them.

Joe Hauck
AMI, Inc.
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gk

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...???
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2010, 11:00:20 AM »

I'm guessing the pirates out there would love to see such a thing.
Just like the guitar blue book has inflated vintage gtr prices for the unknowing. The intrigue of this market is in the personal knowledge. My vote would be: leave it that way.
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compasspnt

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...???
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2010, 03:54:36 PM »

I agree; it would cause more trouble than satisfaction.


Unfortunately.
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Oliver Archut

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...???
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2010, 11:47:56 AM »

Last time I bought myself a tractor I asked my neighbor (who collects old cars and tractors) if the price is O.K. for what I found in the classifieds, instead of me going there he took care of everything even the price talks and aside I got a great working 1964 tractor he also pointed out what I should do in the next coming years to keep it in great shape.

For buying microphones, classic cars, etc, etc, etc. it is the same, find yourself someone that knows his stuff...

Best regards,

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Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

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maarvold

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2010, 11:14:29 PM »

John Monforte wrote on Thu, 08 October 2009 20:35

I would find more useful a registry of mics and serial numbers that can identify owners of mics. That way if one gets stolen and put into the marketplace, a potential buyer could identify it and verify its provenance.

Gotham Audio used to do this for the Neumanns it sold. It helped many owners get their mics back.


A friend had 9 [I think] mics out of a Neumann/Gotham Jubilee run of 100 stolen years ago.  I will guarantee this 83 year old guy would be completely thrilled if he could get even a couple of his mics back.  
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Michael Aarvold
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...!
« Reply #22 on: August 16, 2010, 12:30:00 AM »

In the meantime, there is this for stolen mics:

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/10338/318/
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Fletcher

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...???
« Reply #23 on: August 16, 2010, 06:47:23 AM »

FWIW... on the "stolen microphone" registry front... T-funk has been working on this kind of database for its microphones for the last year and change.  It is about 85-90% complete.  What we would like to do in the future is have users register the sale of their microphone so the next owner has a "registered" mic and we will have a better chance of recovering the unit if it is stolen.

While still a work in progress, the great majority of microphones made and sold over the years [especially in the last 15 months] have been registered and a couple of mics that were "misappropriated" have been returned to their rightful owners.

The idea is not new, we are working from the old Gotham Audio model which has to be somewhat modified to take a "reseller network" into account.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

antoniosolo

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...???
« Reply #24 on: August 16, 2010, 09:44:52 AM »

Thankfully, this registry may curtail the obvious price gouging the vintage mic market is experiencing.
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Fletcher

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...???
« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2010, 08:51:13 AM »

If a seller is willing to sell, and a buyer is willing to buy, and they can agree on a price that is amenable to both parties, then that is not price "gouging", that is "free economy".

Price gouging is when you have a commodity item [lets say gasoline] and you have the "only game in town" [like your filling station is the only one open at 3:30 in the morning] and the general price of that commodity item [random figure] is $3.00/gallon but seeing as you are the only source of supply at 3:30am you decide to charge $5.00/gallon... that is price gouging as the item being sold is a "necessity" item and not a "luxury" item.

Microphones [especially "vintage" microphones] are not "commodity" items [food, fuel, clothing, etc.].  Their existence is for the enhancement of an artistic endeavor which makes them a "luxury item" [like you don't need a Ferrari to pick up little Johnny from school], as such, a seller can price the item at their whim.  

If someone has the money and would like to adopt the item and feels like paying the price then a purchase and sale is enacted... if nobody feels like buying the item for the requested amount then a sale is not transacted.

Not "price gouging".

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

antoniosolo

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...???
« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2010, 11:56:32 AM »

Not gonna argue how you interpret price gouging, only gonna applaude an attempt by the leading authority on mics efforts to arrive at fair market values.....
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Oliver Archut

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...???
« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2010, 01:33:48 PM »

Sorry I have to disagree, but the market, or better the seller, should decide what an item is worth to him; a "leading authority" should only confirm that the mic is what the seller advertises it to be.

And by the way, there is not a real way to say what is fair.
Ask 10 person and you will get 11 answers.

Best regards,

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Oliver Archut
www.tab-funkenwerk.com

We are so advanced, that we can develop technology that can determine how much damage the earth has taken from the development of that technology.

Fletcher

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...???
« Reply #28 on: August 19, 2010, 03:14:17 PM »

Oliver is 1000% right here.  I have a couple of mics that I don't feel like selling... BUT, if someone came along and offered me enough money, I would indeed part with those units.  If they offered me a sick amount of money, and wanted to have them checked out prior to purchase I wouldn't have a problem with that.

If they came to me and said "hey you have a ______, the 'market value' is ______, so I'm going to give you ______ for that mic" chances are better than even I would suggest they perform an unnatural act with a very close family member.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

antoniosolo

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Re: Vintage Mic Value Registry Coming Soon...???
« Reply #29 on: August 19, 2010, 03:37:33 PM »

I am not arguing that the value established as fair must be the selling price, we value our personal belongings differently.  Surely there can, and should, be a system whereby value is established, with "agreement" being the next step in a normal purchase agreement.  We aren't setting rules, only establishing some documented values and benchmarks to establish worth.

The term "Open Market" is a deep hole that leads to organized crime and corruption, i.e. price fixing.  Whatever, let the buyer beware, I welcome some guidance, in my future purchases, from this Forum and its respected members.
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