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Author Topic: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17  (Read 16350 times)

Steve Hudson

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #15 on: June 12, 2009, 08:36:03 am »

I am a big fan of little guitars. My first was a '58 Gibson LG-1, the ladder-braced parlor guitar. Not very loud but oh so intimate. For grins I bought a '57 LG-2 - the cross-braced model - and it has the same character but with more authority. Last year I saw an ad in Craigslist for a Gibson model I'd never heard of, a CF-100. I Googled it and it was like an LG-2 with a Southern Jumbo-style bound neck and a cutaway, the first acoustic that featured one. The guy wanted $1400 but it was worth much more. I arranged to see the guitar late at night at the owner's farm 30 miles outside Austin. As he got out of his truck, he said he'd gotten several calls about the guitar including an offer from a dealer for $2K sight unseen. My hopes of picking up this guitar dimmed. I asked if I could see the guitar and it was a dandy. The owner said it was songwriter Johnny Lee's 1950 CF-100 on which he wrote "Lookin' for Love (In All The Wrong Places)". Then the owner surprised me by saying he'd rather the guitar went to a picker instead of a dealer who'd flip it, and he took my $1400.  It's absolutely my favorite out of a dozen guitars I own. Later that year I bought a mahogany LG-0 from 1958, the first year of production. Except for the pickguard being screwed to the top, it's a pretty cool guitar for the money. I love my dreadnaughts but these little guitars are perfect for recording and just leaving around the house ready to be picked up and played.
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Fibes

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #16 on: June 13, 2009, 02:42:21 pm »

The Collings and Santa Cruz 000 style guitars are the best new guitars made for recording IMO.
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Fibes
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JGauthier

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2009, 11:10:34 pm »

I made a short clip of the Martin. Mainly to show how finished it sounds without eq or verb. Plus how BIG it sounds for soooooo small!

No fx or eq. Nothing but panning (3 position). No mastering, smashing, compression or other nonsense. Guitar and mics.

4 mics in my dead overdub room- big, tall ceilings and relatively dead naturally.

C414eb on the 12th fret cardioid BAE 1073 no EQ
RCA44 right next to the 414 BAE 1073 no EQ
AKG 452eb hanging in my skylight cardioid GML pre
Klaus H U87 in Omni a couple feet above the 414 GML pre


Im just strumming. Ive been playing with the mic in the skylight and this is one of the takes.

And can I just mention how much I still love what Klaus did to my u87. Its KOOKOO in omni! Years later that mic just kills me!

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=963221

BTW- no holds barred. If you think it sounds like ass PLEASE feel free to say so!
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rick-slo

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #18 on: June 14, 2009, 12:02:36 am »

It does sound full. Of course four mikes on one guitar doesn't hurt. It also has nice string to string balance and that is in the guitar itself. Sounds like a winner.

Edvaard

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2009, 01:59:15 am »

Fibes wrote on Sat, 13 June 2009 14:42

The Collings and Santa Cruz 000 style guitars are the best new guitars made for recording IMO.


Were you to leave off the "made for recording" qualification, I agree completely.

They are just the best sounding guitars, period.

Except for a few Dana Bourgeois or James Goodall guitars.

And Franklin guitars get good mention, too.


I've heard Emmylou Harris's Gibson "up close and personal" a few times, and it sounded almost as good as she looks, which is to say a lot.

And I've heard a Gibson J-45 made in '55 and a Gibson J-45 made in '56 that sounded worlds apart.


But I still like the Santa Cruz and Collings guitars. They sound fantastic "out of the box", no need to wait 50 years for things to come into place.


We may not have a modern day M 49 mic, but no question that we can surpass that as far as the instruments themselves go.


Thank goodness.

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rick-slo

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2009, 09:49:43 am »

Well yes there are many fine "recording" guitars. When someone mentions something as being the best recording guitar(s) I just think of the large number of guitars they have not tried recording with and that there is no "best" in the first place as so much depends on what particular sound you want for a project and how you go about recording it.

JGauthier

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2009, 04:00:43 pm »

rick-slo wrote on Sun, 14 June 2009 06:49

I just think of the large number of guitars they have not tried recording with and that there is no "best" in the first place as so much depends on what particular sound you want for a project and how you go about recording it.



I would disagree and say for me, its relative to what you are playing- not the project or recording. This little Martin is unquestionable the best STRUMMING guitar Ive played in over 25 years I sounds nice fingerpicked but not ideal in any way.

And most of the really good players I know have ONE main instrument and a few others that support it- thats not project or recording specific. So it also depends on whether you are the artist or just a supporting player. The artist uses whatever guitar they like- and they usually like their main axe.

I would say though "the best" can be argued from a semantics perspective, there is NO question certain guitars work better than others in general. So when people say best, I would take it in context and not get too hung up on other stuff. ( And I know the original statement was not relative to my Martin but this still applies)

So for me-

These little Martins are the best strumming guitar for recording. There may be other wonderful guitars but for some reason these little vintage pre 70s just sing brilliantly (notice I added the 60s so others are not offended.. hehehe) And its that CONSISTENCY that makes them the best. Its wayyyyyyy less instrument specific- some sound better than others but in good shape, they are super consistent.

I think the recording speaks for itself! And I used 4 mics for more chance to phase and spotlight the guitars short comings, than somehow improve it magically! Its actually harder... Plus I stummed HARD to show the lack of uneven tonality!

Relativity. I assume we all know there is variance in any generalization!

Its really interesting to hear what others think about this for sure!
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rick-slo

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2009, 04:47:37 pm »

J, I can't argue that there is not a "best" for you, for strumming anyway as you say. There just isn't a one "best" out there that applies to everyone. That should be obvious. For myself depending on the type of song I am playing I like one guitar or another.

JGauthier

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #23 on: June 14, 2009, 08:35:52 pm »

rick-slo wrote on Sun, 14 June 2009 13:47

J, I can't argue that there is not a "best" for you, for strumming anyway as you say. There just isn't a one "best" out there that applies to everyone. That should be obvious. For myself depending on the type of song I am playing I like one guitar or another.



And by for me, I mean as an engineer as well as a player. Everyone Ive heard play one well, knocks my socks off. Plus everyone who hears it agrees at how perfect its balance is. And that includes people who have played it for the first time- over their main axe...

So I understand you like what you like, but when there is a consistent result with a variety of players and styles (as long as they are strumming), its absolutely legitimate to claim something about that. I would also argue that Fender Champs and Princetons (50s and 60s) are the best low volume recording amp. Easily. I would say enough people agree to give it credibility.

Best, nicest, consistent- whatever the wording is, it can be debated, but whats the point? And personal preference is great but you are talking to a group of people so any cohesive response or relativity carries more weight. Thats the nature of group discussion.

So to say "to each his own" is self evident and not pertinent to the conversation. Of course to each his own. But Im trying to make a refernce that someone later could read and say, " Hey, all these guys had great vintage martin small body experiences- maybe one will work for me." Not, "Hey theres infinite guitars for different purposes, where do I start".

I would debate the context of the forum is to provide a common ground, not just a million personal tastes! I'd rather focus on how we are alike than how we are different in a context such as this! Though Im NOT saying you shouldn't post exactly as you have. Im just explaining why I think the debate over the context and semantics isn't beneficial other than for us to swing dicks around. And yes me included!

I do hope posters continue to make generalizations on groups of guitars that fullfill a function well. I definitely wasn't considering this a multipurpose guitar!

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Fibes

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2009, 03:29:53 pm »

rick-slo wrote on Sun, 14 June 2009 09:49

Well yes there are many fine "recording" guitars. When someone mentions something as being the best recording guitar(s) I just think of the large number of guitars they have not tried recording with and that there is no "best" in the first place as so much depends on what particular sound you want for a project and how you go about recording it.


A guitar that is better for recording is usually more flat across the spectrum than others. For instance a D28 is an awesome sounding guitar until you mic it and try to put it through a PA or onto an ensemble recording. They are meant to project bass and this translates to mud in many instances.

I've recorded thousands of guitars from Aria Juniors to several of Tony Rice's Martins and if i could have just one flat top to cover all bases it would be one of the Collings or santa Cruz 000 style guitars or a Randy Wood parlor made especially for me.
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Fibes
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rick-slo

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2009, 05:14:23 pm »

Fibes, you have been a busy (very busy) boy to have recorded literally thousands of different guitars. I do agree that the most satisfying guitar in the lap may not be the easiest to record or sit the best in a mix. With solo guitar recordings however there is often more of an incentive to get a more complex sound out of the guitar  than to just have something that sits well among other instruments. Sometimes you have to spend quite some time with a particular guitar to figure out how to record it best. I have owned and recorded a few Collings guitars (still have one) in the past and have played a number of Santa Cruz guitars. Certainly they are fine boutique maker guitars. I have gravitated to small luthier guitars (currently Blanchard, Woolson and Albert-Mueller) both due to personal play time and recording purposes. I always have an ear out however and I have been impressed with Borges and Merrill guitars and if I could afford it I might be looking at a Traugott or Walker. I am sure there are plenty of builders I have completely overlooked.  

In recording so much depends on the context. A dread is characteristically not the most balanced guitar but probably is just the thing to record for flatpicking tunes or bluegrass music (for example some Tony Rice recordings or Wayne Henderson’s Made and Played CD). The really fine sounding guitar recordings I have heard have been on anything from lower end Larrivees to the high end small luthiers -  due no doubt in part to the nature of the music being played , the player and the skill and facilities of the person doing the recording.

Fibes

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2009, 08:43:10 pm »

We agree Rick, I guess I was just jumping on J Gauthiers newfound love of small guitars. Solo guitar is a very different ballgame (every session) and the player as you know has more to do with tone than anything (kinda).

One of the reasons I've tracked so many guitars is I'm open minded about what walks through the door. I could fill a tractor trailer with junque guitars that most engineers wouldn't let near a mic that were absolutely right for the material.

For those times when the junque doesn't cut it, every studio needs a small bodied good flat top, my choices would be the ones I've already mentioned.

I've got a holy grail Martin coming in tomorrow, we'll see.

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Fibes
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The Studio

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JGauthier

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #27 on: June 30, 2009, 08:52:29 pm »

Fibes wrote on Fri, 19 June 2009 17:43

Solo guitar is a very different ballgame (every session) and the player as you know has more to do with tone than anything (kinda).


I absolutely agree as well! And I definitely would NOT use this for a number of things.

Shes a strummer and thats about it IMHO. Pickers like them too but I dont think its the strongest point. But I aslo pick with my finger tips and its nothing special, where a "nails" guy sounds wonderful...

I admit its been mostly in the case since I got the GVCG ultimate 53 Tele... But thats just because Im more electric than acoustic. I will say with the Martin and the GVCG, I can guarantee things will sound good to track and I can't ask for more! If its not wonderful, its the player...

Ive been trying to get my sources solid, so thats why Im so excited- a sonic guarantee its not my fault! If you trained a spider monkey to plug in a 414, md409 and press "3", I would be out of a job...
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DavidSpearritt

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2010, 10:18:13 pm »

I quite like bass in an acoustic. Here is a D35 recorded with a pair of M150 Tubes.
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/3377545-post1.html

Tidewater

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Re: ALL!!! small bodied Martin acoustic guitars 0-15 0-17 00-17
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2010, 12:47:23 pm »

'29 OM-18! '30 OM-28! 18 is better!
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