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Author Topic: For those with passive monitor attenuators..  (Read 18003 times)

Jerry Tubb

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Re: For those with passive monitor attenuators..
« Reply #45 on: December 11, 2009, 10:35:08 pm »

TotalSonic wrote on Thu, 16 July 2009 14:43

It's the reason I still hold onto my older Lucid DA9624 as the monitor DAC for my capture DAW's loopback.  It has an onboard attenuator so I can just set the level to where I want it and then this gets fed to one of the inputs of my Coleman M3PHmkII monitor controller (which receives on another one of its inputs a direct feed from the source).  The stereo pot on the attenuator doesn't track perfectly but the differences in the positions varies only very subtly (no more than a 1/4dB - and with a few labelled positions that I've found are perfectly accurate).  I find that the downside's of the older conversion and the less than perfect tracking are more than offset for me being able to do really quick level matched a/b's.


Sounds like what I've been doing Steve, using the Lucid DA9624 for level "matched" comparisons from my Source DAW (yet another advantage of the dual DAW setup). The onboard pot on the Lucid gets a little scratchy when the humidity goes up... time for yet another "lube" job.

Cheers - JT
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mcsnare

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Re: For those with passive monitor attenuators..
« Reply #46 on: December 12, 2009, 04:03:02 pm »

Quote:

Dave, does this 'single button' solution have some kind of AGC going on?

Im trying to understand how this could work.



Most mastering consoles (including the one I use) have a volume knob for the pre-process compare, sourced after the first input stage but before the inserts. After you get an idea of your basic printing level you A/B and set the volume to match. I might tweak it a few times after I dial in some processing, but the it's far easier to set it a few times and then hit a button al the other times you compare, than it is to hit a button AND try to adjust volume at the same time for all the times you compare. I do a lot of comparing.


Dave


Crispin HT

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Re: For those with passive monitor attenuators..
« Reply #47 on: December 12, 2009, 08:15:07 pm »

Hi Andrew,

Just a quick insight to how we at least manage the A/B trims.

We have an analogue monitor with a balanced passive attenuator calibrated in 0.25dB steps. This passive attenuator presents a constant impedance to the source. After this is a balanced active stage that isolates the attenuator from the affects of cables and loads, so that teh unit should sound the same no matter what room it's in.

The A/B system works by relay selecting a source and simultaneously altering the attenuation for that source.  This means that as you switch the monitor gain alters, but the path is identical, that is no extra electronics are switched in or out.

With our digital type consoles, the same DAC is used, and as the digital router changes source, the analogue attenuation post DAC changes as above.  In this way you are also using the same monitor DAC.

I can't say that we are truely transparent: nothing is. But we come quite close, and any colouration is constant, irrespective of source, destination or trim applied.

Hope this helps you visualise how our monitor A/B works.

Cheers
Crispin HT
http://www.crookwood.com
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Cheers,
Crispin HT
Crookwood
http://crookwood.com

Crispin HT

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Re: For those with passive monitor attenuators..
« Reply #48 on: December 12, 2009, 08:19:19 pm »

Oh and forgot to say that the monitor trim is recalled each time you access that source, so you can A/B anything to anything else.

On some models we have a single button that allows you to flip between the source and output of the record path, so with a fast SRC based DAC, you just quickly toggle the button to A/B your main path.

Cheers
Crispin HT
http://www.crookwood.com
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Cheers,
Crispin HT
Crookwood
http://crookwood.com

Andrew Hamilton

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Re: For those with passive monitor attenuators..
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2009, 02:42:35 pm »

Crispin HT wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 20:15

Hi Andrew,



Hi Crispin,

Crispin HT wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 20:15


We have an analogue monitor with a balanced passive attenuator calibrated in 0.25dB steps.


Wow. That's subtle.  The Dunlavy monitor pairs are (originally)  matched to within 0.25 dB, fwiw.  Also, the new Sontec switches are offered with some steps having +/- 0.25 dB.

Crispin HT wrote


This passive attenuator presents a constant impedance to the source. After this is a balanced active stage that isolates the attenuator from the effects of cables and loads, so that the unit should sound the same no matter what room it's in.


thanks to buffering amps... |:

Crispin HT wrote


...This means that as you switch the monitor gain alters, but the path is identical, that is no extra electronics are switched in or out.


...at least you are consistent.  (;

Crispin HT wrote


With our digital type consoles, the same DAC is used, and as the digital router changes source, the analogue attenuation post DAC changes as above.  In this way you are also using the same monitor DAC.


I quite agree with this requirement.  Even the same make, model, and year DAC, calibrated to within 1/10 miliVolt, can have a subtle difference in sound that can attributed to the batch of components, or even, dare I allow, "expectation?"

My motley rig, using the Z-Sys detangler, and the input faders in SSHD, does permit the level-matched monitoring of the M3/M4  source from the same DAC as the M1/M2 destination.

Crispin HT wrote


I can't say that we are truly transparent: nothing is. But we come quite close, and any colouration is constant, irrespective of source, destination or trim applied.


Best of all, you are honest!  (:

Crispin HT wrote


Hope this helps you visualise how our monitor A/B works.



Indeed, it gives me renewed confidence in my Crookwood wishes (and, dreams, however "caviar").



Thank you,
    Andrew
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subvertbeats

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Re: For those with passive monitor attenuators..
« Reply #50 on: December 15, 2009, 04:01:26 am »

mcsnare wrote on Sat, 12 December 2009 21:03

Quote:

Dave, does this 'single button' solution have some kind of AGC going on?

Im trying to understand how this could work.



Most mastering consoles (including the one I use) have a volume knob for the pre-process compare, sourced after the first input stage but before the inserts. After you get an idea of your basic printing level you A/B and set the volume to match. I might tweak it a few times after I dial in some processing, but the it's far easier to set it a few times and then hit a button al the other times you compare, than it is to hit a button AND try to adjust volume at the same time for all the times you compare. I do a lot of comparing.


Dave





Cheers Dave, yep thats where Im trying to get to.
Whilst saving for one of Crispins consoles, ill have to keep the pressure on Prism Sound to make the assignable volume knob more finely grained....then with one of the Goldpoint boxes I'd be there...
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