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[ktownson]

Holy cow, it looks cool, tho.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/01/16/ces.luxury.turntable/inde x.html

[Barry Hufker]

Click this link:  http://www.avguide.com/forums/rocky-mountain-audio-fest-part -two-notable-introductions

Read about the $150k "Statement" table (second picture down from the top) and decide for yourself...

[Nobtwiddler]

As an avid audiophile,
with a pair of Wilson speakers, a Wadia CD turntable, Mark Levinson convertors, a pair of Cary Signature 8 watt SET tube amplifiers, two custom made Analog turntables set up in my apartment.
TRUST ME, this can go much further $$$, then one can possibly imagine!

That being said.....
The sound is truly AMAZING~!
I wish everyone could hear this, cause it really is out of this world!
You are totally taken in by the music, it's not just a background experince anymore!

The way it was when I was a teenager.
Sadly enough it took $$$ to get me there again at this age.
GO figure.

[jimmyjazz]

Hey, it's only $27K with one tonearm.  (And my wife thinks I'm crazy for owning the lower end Oracle 'table, which came in around $2K with arm and cartridge.)

[Jay Kadis]

This is all I need to hear records like I did as a teenager (and I still have it):

[Samc]

Nobtwiddler wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 00:02

As an avid audiophile, with a pair of Wilson speakers, a Wadia CD turntable, Mark Levinson convertors, a pair of Cary Signature 8 watt SET tube amplifiers, two custom made Analog turntables set up in my apartment. TRUST ME, this can go much further $$$, then one can possibly imagine! That being said..... The sound is truly AMAZING~! I wish everyone could hear this, cause it really is out of this world! You are totally taken in by the music, it's not just a background experince anymore! The way it was when I was a teenager. Sadly enough it took $$$ to get me there again at this age. GO figure.

Please remember though that no matter how much the system costs, the music wont sound any better that the system it was mixed or mastered on.....Or somebody is fooling somebody.

[maarvold]

Samc wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 19:36

Please remember though that no matter how much the system costs, the music wont sound any better that the system it was mixed or mastered on.....Or somebody is fooling somebody.

It is totally possible to extract more information from the recording than the system it was mixed or mastered on in many cases.  It is not even nearly a new concept to chase the idea of trying to find out "what's really on the tape".  

[MDM,]

Samc wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 21:36

Please remember though that no matter how much the system costs, the music wont sound any better that the system it was mixed or mastered on.....Or somebody is fooling somebody.

Which is why I can't get myself to listen to MOST records made after 1982-ish... which corresponds to the time people started mixing on non-discrete equipment on a large scale.

and as far as the studio, when I listen to mixes on my home stereo, I can pick out balance and intention of the musicians in less time than with normal studio gear..

the only setback with my stereo is bass extension and perhaps lack of a ruler-flat response like you get on some modern amplified monitors.

[MDM,]

Nobtwiddler wrote on Fri, 16 January 2009 18:02

As an avid audiophile, with a pair of Wilson speakers, a Wadia CD turntable, Mark Levinson convertors, a pair of Cary Signature 8 watt SET tube amplifiers, two custom made Analog turntables set up in my apartment. TRUST ME, this can go much further $$$, then one can possibly imagine! That being said..... The sound is truly AMAZING~! I wish everyone could hear this, cause it really is out of this world! You are totally taken in by the music, it's not just a background experince anymore! The way it was when I was a teenager. Sadly enough it took $$$ to get me there again at this age. GO figure.

I am curious about your custom turntables.

I've noticed two things which are not in agreement with audiophile 'tradition'

first a heavy platter sounds better, but even if the motor is not working too well and slips.. I've read of people stating that heavy platters sound better because the speed is more stable, especially on heavy modulated parts..

I think this is wrong.  My belief is that a thin platter resonates at an audible frequency and is more likely to go into a state of resonance than a heavy one..

the other one which nobody seems to agree with is that I believe a tonearm should have a high mass, at the headshell at least.

I sold my Technics 1200 because the light arm was coloring the sound and resonating..

Just shut off the amplifier and put your ear next to the tonearm and pickup... do you hear music coming out??

well. that means that much of the energy is being absorbed by and resonates through the tonearm!

the cheaper lenco with a heavy arm does not make nearly as much noise and it sounds better.. but it does rumble a bit.

the ideal would be to have a perfectly centred record on a thick and heavy platter.  The tonearm should have a headshell with enough inertia not to absorb any transients and resonate below audio freq. and the arm should be long enough to have little error for tracking, and be stiff, light, and non resonant.

I think the light tonearms are needed mostly to compensate for poor pressings and warped records.. not so much for sound.

but that's my take on it.. in the future maybe I'll have time to build one too.

[Samc]

MDM, wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 12:00

first a heavy platter sounds better, but even if the motor is not working too well and slips.. I've read of people stating that heavy platters sound better because the speed is more stable, especially on heavy modulated parts..

If the motor which is responsible for the rotation of the platter is not working properly, how can you expect the platter to maintain constant speed?  Anyway, a heavy platter will maintain a constant speed better than a light one because it has more inertia, therefore once it gets up to speed it requires less (relative) energy (torque) to keep it rotating at speed.   It does however require a properly working motor to bring it up to and to maintain a constant speed.

Quote:

I think this is wrong.  My belief is that a thin platter resonates at an audible frequency and is more likely to go into a state of resonance than a heavy one..

No it's not wrong...but neither is your belief about a thinner platter with less mass resonating at a higher frequency that the heavier, thicker platter.

Quote:

the other one which nobody seems to agree with is that I believe a tonearm should have a high mass, at the headshell at least.

This would destroy your records and needle systems in a hurry; the whole needle suspension system would have to be stiffer (to support the extra weight) which would make the needle less responsive to high frequencies etc, etc......

Quote:

I sold my Technics 1200 because the light arm was coloring the sound and resonating..

Why didn't you just change the tonearm?  This is the first time I've heard someone accuse the stock 1200 tonearm of being too resonant though, these tables and their stock tonearms have been playing in loud clubs, parties and festivals mostly without any feedback problems everyday for the past 30+ years.

Quote:

Just shut off the amplifier and put your ear next to the tonearm and pickup... do you hear music coming out?? well. that means that much of the energy is being absorbed by and resonates through the tonearm!

That is not what this means...What you are listening to in fact is the sound coming directly from the needle.  I don't remember the details, but I remember an old parlor trick from years ago where you could roll a piece of paper into a cone, put the pointed end on the cartridge (?) and you would hear the music coming from the cone.

[MDM,]

Hi Samc,

the platter issue I mentioned needs to be clarified.  I mentioned that a heavy platter with a bad motor sounds better than a light platter with a 'perfect' motor.

some people say pulley-driven direct drive sounds steadier and usually these old direct drive players had thick platters to smooth out engine instability.  So the steady sound is attributed to the thicker platters..

but they say that the record slows down on loud transients like a hiccup or something, and apparently the added mass makes this less of a problem.  I believe that it is more likely that the thick platters simply resonate less at audio frequencies.  They certainly have advantages for wow&flutter but the coupling of the record to a high-mass platter should make the record resonate less and absorb peaks less..

as far as heavy tonearms destroying records, that is true for warped records.. I don't know that you need to go so heavy that the arm is sluggish, but not as light as some.

the technics was emanating sound from the tonearm, and the arm was in perfect condition..

[meverylame]

MDM, wrote on Sat, 17 January 2009 06:50

Which is why I can't get myself to listen to MOST records made after 1982-ish... which corresponds to the time people started mixing on non-discrete equipment on a large scale.

Have you actually WORKED on a record since 1982??

[littlehat]

Um...

How massive a turntable tonearm is has nothing to do with how the needle or records wear. Resonance and tracking can be impacted though.

You balance your tonearm to put a specific amount of pressure on the disc and the needle.

If your tonearm weighed a hundred pounds... it wouldn't mean a thing to a stylus or disc if you balanced it properly.

[Edvaard]

[MDM,]

littlehat,  the problem with heavy tonearms is the high inertia. If the record is poorly centred or is warped the tonearm would tend to stay still, while the record groove would not. This is what ends up ruining records and needles.

Some record players have the spindle which is moveable to correct off-centre pressings.  Another feature to tame warped records is a vacuum pump to keep the vinyl flat onto the platter. There are other ways as well