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Author Topic: The Skinny on AKG's CK12 Capsule?  (Read 50495 times)

k.wasley

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Re: CK12 . . . .
« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2009, 05:51:07 AM »

Klaus Heyne wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 14:37

Tim Campbell wrote on Fri, 28 November 2008 12:23


I only know that if I believed that it was impossible to manufacture a new version of a capsule or remembrane one to sound as good as it was originally manufactured I wouldn't spend any more of my time doing it.



Looking forward to receiving and testing your CK12 version and sharing my findings!


Have you received this yet? Excited and interested to hear your opinion.
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Frankenheimer

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Re: CK12 . . . .
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2009, 12:12:23 PM »

As i said on the C12VR Mod. thread  i am completely satisfied with TIM's capsule. I use it in the CK4 head. I also have a matched pair of C414combs. So naturally there's a difference in sound since my CK4 is on the 451 body, but TIM's capsule has its on flair. Check it out and make your own conclusions.

rgds.
Franz
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Franz Skale
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k.wasley

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Re: CK12 . . . .
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2009, 01:10:52 PM »

My question was directed at Klaus, since he's particularly stern and exacting when it comes to a CK12 remake / re-skinning's quality.
It is good to know however that there are happy customers.
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: CK12 . . . .
« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2009, 01:40:37 PM »

k.wasley wrote on Tue, 03 March 2009 02:51


Have you received this yet? Excited and interested to hear your opinion.


Received but not tested yet.
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

J.J. Blair

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Re: CK12 . . . .
« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2009, 01:55:11 PM »

I tested one of Tim's capsules, and while quite good, it did not match the particular CK12 I was trying to match in the mids.  He said he had matched that one up against a CK12 that some engineers there had favored.  I sent him a sound file of both capsules to hear the difference, and he is sending me another capsule to test, that is hopefully tuned more along the lines of the capsule I'm using as my benchmark.
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k.wasley

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Re: CK12 . . . .
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2009, 04:01:55 PM »

Thanks for the reply Klaus. Looking forward to your opinion. I'm considering sending a capsule myself but wanted to hear from your experience first. Any idea when you might post your results?

kind regards
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Tim Campbell

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Re: CK12 . . . .
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2009, 04:10:35 PM »

 "The purpose of life is to be defeated by greater and
greater things."-Ranier Maria Rilke

I look forward to constructive critism or favorable opinions of my work. I've especially appreciated getting to know JJ Blair these past few weeks and his feedback has been invaluable to me. I hope I've managed to match his benchmark from listening to a soundfile, but if not I may still be able to muster up the energy to tweak another capsule.

Ultimately, the most important and telling opinion comes from customers. I have done work for members of this forum who, for whatever reason haven't joined in this discussion. I am accommodating. If someone can give me a clear idea of what they want,then of course that is my goal in doing work for them.
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strangeandbouncy

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Re: CK12 . . . .
« Reply #22 on: March 04, 2009, 05:59:45 AM »

Hi,
I have had a capsule from Tim. I am in the middle of an album, having worked 16 hours a day since the New Year. Every day. I am desperate to try it out, and post my opinion. Soon to come  and I am sorry not to have done so yet!

Kindest regards,
ANdyP
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strangeandbouncy

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Re: CK12 . . . .
« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2009, 11:07:05 AM »

Hi all,
I have no AKG mics made with CK12 to play with at present. I am planning to build a C12 copy using Flea body. . . . One day . . . . In the meantime, I have bought an Alctron crappy tube mic to play with, and have put Tim's most recent capsule in, and swapped 12AX7B for a GE 6072 five star. I will re-build the electronics along the lines of the C12VR mod so generously provided by Oliver. I haven't even reduced the capsule voltage yet, and it sounds incredibly promising! I won't say any more 'til I have converted it further.

Immediate impressions count for a lot in my book, and they are very favourable indeed! Thank you Tim!

Kindest regards, ANdyP
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djosephson

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Re: CK12 . . . .
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2009, 09:59:58 PM »

Klaus's list is correct as far as I know although there may be others who are trying to replicate this capsule too. We have been making a CK12 derivative for nearly 20 years and continue to supply it to Manley for their Gold Reference microphone, and over the years to other OEMs who have incorporated it into microphones they have made. After our first two OEMs (Manley and Groove Tubes) we made it a condition of all subsequent sales that we don't say who buys our capsules, nor may they say who they get them from. We will of course repair any Josephson microphone (which includes the C700 and C720 which use variants of this capsule), but we don't work on other brands. And we are pleased to work with new OEMs who have the resources to make a good product with our capsules.

While it is surely possible for someone to get up to speed to do individual capsules, it's many hours to get one right. Repairing a damaged one takes longer than building a new one from fresh parts, because you have no idea what trauma has happened to what you have, nor do you know much about what kind of diaphragm it needs to perform properly. So the idea that you can just "re-skin" a CK12 is a bit far-fetched. Yes, you can put on any diaphragm and it will work, but to get it close to a real CK12 is only possible if you have the facilities and are willing to put in the time and energy.

As far as the variants of CK12 capsule, there are two main ones: Stephen Paul described them in a magazine article as "shallow dish" (earlier) and "deep dish" (later). The deep dish is almost universally preferred. Deep and shallow refer to an internal dimension of some of the damping chambers, which is not visible unless the capsule is disassembled. Other visible variants are the color of lacquer, if any, used on the outside (not significant for sound), material the diaphragm ring is made of and other bits. More critical are internal variations which are often not visible even if you take the capsule apart.
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Tim Campbell

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Re: The Skinny on the CK12?
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2009, 03:17:38 AM »

"While it is surely possible for someone to get up to speed to do individual capsules, it's many hours to get one right. Repairing a damaged one takes longer than building a new one from fresh parts, because you have no idea what trauma has happened to what you have, nor do you know much about what kind of diaphragm it needs to perform properly. So the idea that you can just "re-skin" a CK12 is a bit far-fetched. Yes, you can put on any diaphragm and it will work, but to get it close to a real CK12 is only possible if you have the facilities and are willing to put in the time and energy."

Just so no one gets the wrong impression from David's post, I've been working with CK12 capsules and rediaphraming them for more than 10 years. I think I have email going back that far with David on this very subject.

http://timcampbell.dk/Before.jpg
http://timcampbell.dk/After.jpg

It seems too often these days that if a task isn't fairly easy to do it quickly gets labelled as impossible or near impossible. People from all walks of life manage to accomplish things much harder and more complex than tuning a piece of plastic film properly and glueing it to a metal ring.
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Giles Jeremy

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Re: The Skinny on the CK12?
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2009, 09:26:42 AM »


Hear hear!!

Thanks Tim for that refreshingly down to earth but inspiring reminder of the wonder of human endeavour!

Looking forward to using one of your capsules as soon as I can.

Giles
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Frankenheimer

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Re: The Skinny on the CK12?
« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2009, 01:24:48 PM »

Anyway, Tim's capsule is simply wonderful.
We're using it right now as room mic on a 451E body + ck4 housing. Session Photo attached.

rgds.
Franz
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Franz Skale
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strangeandbouncy

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Re: The Skinny on the CK12?
« Reply #28 on: March 19, 2009, 06:19:02 PM »

Hi All,


  I have not yet converted my Alctron (with Tim's Capsule) to Oliver's C12VR mod electronics. I had to record a breathy female backing vocal a couple of days ago, and reached for my new Lash-up Alctron instead of any of my other mics. I would dearly have loved to have done a comparison with a C12 or any other mic with a CK12. All I can relate is that it worked staggeringly well, leaving a stunning performance(in a backing vocal!) in it's wake. I can honestly say that it screams C12, and that is even with crappy chinese electronics, giving far too high a polarising voltage to the capsule. - even with cathode follower it rocks. Period.

 I do accept that to make any comparison where NOTHING is in common, is folly, but something is definately going on here.

 If someone in south of England has a C12, C412, C414, C12A, or 251, and is happy to let me swap out Tim's capsule for a direct comparison, then I can make a scientific appraisal. Until then, I can only give a "visceral" appraisal, based only on my memory of favoured mics. My gut instinct tells me that Tim's capsule is awesome. I have the results on tape to prove it.

 Kindest regards,


  ANdyP
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: The Skinny on the CK12?
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2009, 02:18:42 PM »

I will test two of Tim's CK12 capsule-restorations (the ones in the pictures he posted) in actual C12 mics  which are equipped with superb, stock CK12s.
So this would be an apples-to-apples comparison.

I hopefully will have time to write up something about the test results soon.
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com
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