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Author Topic: Telefunken-USA 'VF14k' Tubes or: How Authentic Must It Be?  (Read 23230 times)

brett

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Telefunken-USA 'VF14k' Tubes or: How Authentic Must It Be?
« on: October 20, 2008, 04:19:41 pm »

Has anyone heard a vintage U47 with a new TELE VF14 in it?

From Ebay auction-


U47 Short Body Restoration


If you are looking to purchase a vintage U47 that is completely original, this is not the mic for you. However, if you are interested in a vintage U47 that has been restored to original spec and sounds absolutely amazing, like it did out of the box 50 years ago, then this mic IS for you.

This mic was one of two short bodies that were permanent fixtures at a church in Tennessee. They were sent to Telefunken USA for restoration approx one year ago. Upon their arrival, the body tubes were dented and damaged from screw holes drilled in them for mounting purposes. The mics were in rough shape due to the lack of care and maintanence. The original GN8B output transformer was failing and the VF14 tube was shot. Upon further inspection, we determined that the capsule was in fine shape and sounded great. We decided that some serious work needed to happen to this microphone, including special attention to the output transformer and the vacuum tube.

This U47 started its life as a U48, this is why it includes the grey matte finish plating on the headgrill instead of the nickle plating found on the U47s. The capsule is the original issued K47 capsule. We have included the Frequency Analysis plot of this capsule with the attached photos.

Here is a detailed part by part breakdown of the parts and components included in this microphone system:

- Original brass ring K47 capsule
- Original silver matte finish headgrill and internal capsule mount and components.
- Original GN8B rewound to standard BV8 using original metal material by AMI/ TAB Funkenwerk
- Original oil filled Bosche output capacitors
- Original circuit boards and metal "decking" and chasis rails inside microphone
- Original Neumann tube socket

- New Telefunken USA power supply and 25' Gotham Audio GAC7 cable with Binder USA and Tuchel style connectors. This PSU and Cable system will mate and interface with original U47s set up for VF14 tubes.

- New VF14k tube replacement for the VF14 tube. This is a newly manufactured solution for bad VF14 tube. A direct plug and play physical and sonic replacement for the VF14, the VF14k operates at the same voltages, with no modification to the original circuit or power supply. If so desired, a real VF14 can be placed into the circuit of this mic at any time, without worries or needs to modification.

- New polarizing capacitor at the top of the mic
- New resistors on the circuit board near the transformer
- New wooden microphone box (short body)
- New Shock Mount

This microphone will include a 1 YEAR WARRANTY on all parts and labor, no questions asked. If the capsule, tube, psu or transformer fail within one year of purchase, they will be replaced at no charge. Vintage Tones reserves the right to end auctions early as Items are being sold locally. Zero feedback and negative feedback buyers must contact us before bidding. Buyer pays shipping charges.
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compasspnt

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Re: "New" VF14's in Original U47 starting to surface
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 04:42:01 pm »

It is so great that real VF14's are back!

Ah..hem...
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J.J. Blair

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Re: "New" VF14's in Original U47 starting to surface
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008, 05:29:36 pm »

Well, it's being sold by Vintage Tones / Tele USA, so it would make sense that they put the VF14K in it.  I'm still really curious to hear what they sound like.  The xray I have of one of them looks correct.

A correction though about their description: The Bosch caps are not oil filled.  I'm trying to figure out if that's the original capsule bias resistor and and grid shunt resistor.  It's hard to see.  They are smaller than what I am used to seeing in U47s.  It's not the type T-USA uses, so it's very likely.  I don't have any U48 or short body U47 innard pics to compare it to.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

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"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Klaus Heyne

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Re: "New" VF14's in Original U47 starting to surface
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 07:43:57 pm »

The capsule in that mic does not seem to be a stock Neumann K47.
(The diaphragm ring mounting screws do not look original.)

Everyone wants to sell adulterated or vintage-like wares and put them in as close proximity to the original, legendary mics as they can be put with words- from naming replacement parts using the same or almost same names as the original, to asserting original-like performance.

If these kind of mics sound great, they should sell themselves even at steep prices, like this one, and they should not need any further (in my opinion) contentious assertions.


We urgently need replacement tubes for U47/48 with the performance of a genuine VF14. I have well-working original factory spec VF14M specimens to compare these new tubes to, and am ready to test. So, let's hear the Telefunken-USA copy of the original Telefunken-made VF14- I am genuinely curious.

Where are these VF14k tubes? Are they being made available for objective and subjective testing by any others than those who buy the whole mic system? And if not, why?
I will pay for shipping both ways and I promise to keep the results of testing confidential, if requested by the sender of one of these tubes.

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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Fletcher

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Re: "New" VF14's in Original U47 starting to surface
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2009, 02:26:12 pm »

Klaus Heyne wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 19:43


Where are these VF14k tubes? Are they being made available for objective and subjective testing by any others than those who buy the whole mic system? And if not, why?


Sorry to resurrect a thread over 15 months old but someone in another thread on another forum made a link to this and it is the first I had seen it.

The tubes are ONLY sold with the systems [and sometimes for 'restoration repair'] as they're A) a time consuming bitch to make and B) we can only produce enough per month to cover our requirements for current production with an extra or two for 'restoration repair' [in a good month].

That said, if you would like to evaluate one the next time we have one we can spare for a month or so I'd be happy to send it to you for evaluation.  I know I have your address somewhere but as I'm inherently rather lazy if you could email it to me cnf@t-funk.com the next time we have one we can spare, we will send it to you for evaluation.

Fair enough?
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

Klaus Heyne

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Re: "New" VF14's in Original U47 starting to surface
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2009, 03:30:49 pm »

Fair enough, and I promise to listen with an open ear.

Adress has been sent.

Thanks,
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Silvertone

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Re: "New" VF14's in Original U47 starting to surface
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2009, 06:21:11 pm »

Okay, now I'm interested...
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Larry DeVivo
Silvertone Mastering, Inc.
PO Box 4582
Saratoga Springs, NY 12866
www.silvertonemastering.com
To see some of our work please click on any of the visual trailer montages located at... http://robertetoll.com/  (all music and sound effects were mastered by Silvertone Mastering).

kats

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Re: "New" VF14's in Original U47 starting to surface
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2009, 07:20:24 pm »

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 20 October 2008 16:29

 The xray I have of one of them looks correct.




And to clarify, the X-Ray JJ had posted WAS NOT of a Vf14k. It was bullshit. I actually bought one because I believed that T-USA had actually pulled it off because of these pictures. As well as been promised a spare that was never delivered.

Great sounding mic though Smile


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Tony K.
http://empirerecording.ca

Entertainment is a bore, communication is where it's at! - Brian Jones 1967

J.J. Blair

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Re: "New" VF14's in Original U47 starting to surface
« Reply #8 on: December 24, 2009, 01:25:36 am »

I wish I had a record of who sent me that xray.  I was certainly hoodwinked.  
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

kats

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Re: Telefunken-USA 'VF14k' tubes starting to surface
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2009, 07:57:42 pm »

Really? You received that anonymously?
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Tony K.
http://empirerecording.ca

Entertainment is a bore, communication is where it's at! - Brian Jones 1967

J.J. Blair

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Re: Telefunken-USA 'VF14k' tubes starting to surface
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2009, 01:10:06 am »

It was sent by somebody who told me their boss bought the mic, and made the xray, or something like that.  I get many e-mails from people I don't know bout PSW stuff all the time.  I had no reason to suspect this might be some kind of chicanery.
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Fletcher

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Re: Telefunken-USA 'VF14k' tubes starting to surface
« Reply #11 on: December 26, 2009, 10:34:18 am »

FWIW, I checked around the office... nobody there has any knowledge of you being sent an X-ray of anything.  No "chicanery" or "hoodwink" attempt was generated by anyone I can find at TELEFUNKEN Elektroakustik nor with any "known associate" I can find.

Peace.
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CN Fletcher

mwagener wrote on Sat, 11 September 2004 14:33
We are selling emotions, there are no emotions in a grid


"Recording engineers are an arrogant bunch.  
If you've spent most of your life with a few thousand dollars worth of musicians in the studio, making a decision every second and a half... and you and  they are going to have to live with it for the rest of your lives, you'll get pretty arrogant too.  It takes a certain amount of balls to do that... something around three"
Malcolm Chisholm

J.J. Blair

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Re: Telefunken-USA 'VF14k' tubes starting to surface
« Reply #12 on: December 26, 2009, 12:41:53 pm »

Fletcher, thanks for looking into that.  For the record, I wasn't implying that anybody in there was responsible.  Sorry if I gave that impression.  I don't even know that I was seriously thinking that, even though of course the notion crossed my mind.  I was simply saying that somebody took advantage of my trust, and pulled the wool over my eyes, and I passed on bad info.  Furthermore, I have no way of finding out who that was, any longer.  But whoever did it, by definition, is responsible for chicanery, and I feel the fool for passing along bad info.
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Klaus Heyne

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Re: Telefunken-USA 'VF14k' tubes starting to surface
« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2009, 02:58:42 pm »

This is a good example of the questionable reliability of internet information, and how we all can learn from a mishap like this one:
Quote:

 I was simply saying that somebody took advantage of my trust, and pulled the wool over my eyes, and I passed on bad info. Furthermore, I have no way of finding out who that was, any longer.


Actually, it was YOU who first posted the x-ray without corroborating or confirming what it showed before you hit the send button.  
So, despite your probably noble, innocent intentions, ultimately it was your decision to spread the questionable picture over the internet and attach to it Telefunken-USA's name. No need to invoke third parties who let you down.

That is one of the reasons why I am such a hardass about any third-party information on this forum.
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Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

kats

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Re: Telefunken-USA 'VF14k' tubes starting to surface
« Reply #14 on: December 26, 2009, 03:07:58 pm »

Well I definitely didn't think T-USA would be fool enough to do something like that (although I didn't think they would try to call a glass tube "electronically and sonically identical" to a real Vf14 either. I thought Grosser's pics had to be fake when I had seen them.)

But having said that, they certainly did NOTHING to stop the notion from spreading on two very popular forums. Even before the hoopla I emailed T-USA (since I was privy to these pics months before they showed up on PSW) and they refused to respond in writing. Telephone conversation only. Same with the VF14k spare I was promised. After finding out about the glass tube encased I was nervous about the life expectancy and requested a back up tube. I was told supply is short due to high demand but that they will be caught up within a year.

Again verbal only, and as you can probably guess - no spare ever sent.

I do like the product though, and I absolutely think T-USA should be upfront and proud of their product - glass tube and all! This I told them directly. Hopefully you, Fletcher, will be part of a better culture between company and customer that the product deserves.
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Tony K.
http://empirerecording.ca

Entertainment is a bore, communication is where it's at! - Brian Jones 1967
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