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Author Topic: Question for William on bass playing  (Read 6965 times)

rankus

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2008, 02:10:56 PM »



Also of note is that plucking with the thumb adds more bottom generally and is  a bit more "tubby" than fingers. Another aspect of that Paul sound IMO.

I prefer muting with the fretting hand as well. And agree that the feel can be quite different with the muting technique... one of the real "feel" aspects of the instrument.

Barry:  I feel your pain!  After "playing" bass for more than thirty years myself, its tough to realize that we may never be "world class"

 
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leonardo valvassori

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2008, 02:41:13 PM »

 I love how Paul rarely looks at his hands while he performs.

He also seems unafraid of that area between the 5th and 9nth frets.

Saw some footage of his Quebec show from last week, and um, he is still the master.

Every note counts. None are wasted. All serve the melody.

(sometimes IS the melody).

And, btw, if any of you saw Cyndi L this summer, you know that WW is no slouch either.
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Leonardo Valvassori

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2008, 03:29:39 PM »

Leonardo Valvassori wrote on Sat, 26 July 2008 11:41

 
And, btw, if any of you saw Cyndi L this summer, you know that WW is no slouch either.


I was in the gym today, trying to ignore the awful music on the loudspeaker but I recognized the melody.  It was CL's "Time after Time," sung by some guy, massively autotuned.  Dreadful.  

No wonder I hate going to the gym.  (Yeah, that's it.)
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Electric Warrior

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2008, 04:41:38 PM »

you're going to the wrong gym
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv5zWaTEVkI

am I the only one who likes McCartney's rough outlining of "Ever Present Past" better than the finished song?
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Edvaard

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2008, 06:51:22 PM »

Electric Warrior wrote on Sat, 26 July 2008 16:41

you're going to the wrong gym
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv5zWaTEVkI

am I the only one who likes McCartney's rough outlining of "Ever Present Past" better than the finished song?



Probably not. But his and JL's ability to 'snatch things out of the air' that were going by all of us the whole time might go some way to explaining their success.

It's hard to describe such a title "Ever Present Past" as genius when some of us have all thought the same thing at one time or another, but there it is.

WW, however, has pointed to the issue here.

It's a matter of 'filling the space' correctly, not just attacking the note at some proper time.

And R Shelton's link to that great P McCartney 'bass lesson' with it's staccato lines just proved the point all the more.

And yes, Carol Kaye has a great website too.
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Tom L

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2008, 10:23:56 PM »

rankus wrote on Sat, 26 July 2008 10:10


Also of note is that plucking with the thumb adds more bottom generally and is  a bit more "tubby" than fingers. Another aspect of that Paul sound IMO.


I've always been fascinated by how he uses his thumb.  His control of it and that thumpy attack. Signature sound.  Not to mention being so melodic yet rock solid anchored. Oh yeah, and totally groovin, and...

Bryson

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2008, 02:16:38 AM »

Dig when Paul goes to the F... He lands on it with his index finger, then changes to the middle finger to afford desired fingering for the following changes. He doesn't do it the same way every time though (which I can appreciate).
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McAllister

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2008, 01:14:25 PM »

Quote:


and it is actually not the correct way to do that, despite it being done by one of the planet's most instantly recognisable bass masters. The correct way to control sustain is by using the fingers doing the plucking (damping the string between plucks). This gives a much more elegant result, but results in less pulsation (depending on the skill of the player). No fret buzz or unintended modulation occurs if done "the correct way", but McCartney's method can give better results for some circumstances.



Huh.

I've been playing bass for a lot of years and have never heard there is a "correct way" to control sustain.

Bottom line: it either works or it doesn't. The technique that gets you there is irrelevant.

"Hello, Sir Paul, did you know that you've actually been doing it wrong?"

M
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Devin Knutson

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2008, 03:38:51 PM »

As an add on to all the great advice given already, my take is that many guitar players, because of the way they are used to constructing phrases, often just don't hear rests as musical.  On bass, the note-off is just as important, sometimes moreso, than the note-on.

I'm working a tune right now, and after many more complex permutations, the bass line has evolved into straight quarter notes.  onnnnnne - rest - threeeee - rest.  The rests are choked sharply, so that the release becomes a purcussive note.
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Berolzheimer

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2008, 08:41:08 PM »

Devin Knutson wrote on Mon, 28 July 2008 12:38

As an add on to all the great advice given already, my take is that many guitar players, because of the way they are used to constructing phrases, often just don't hear rests as musical.  On bass, the note-off is just as important, sometimes moreso, than the note-on.

I'm working a tune right now, and after many more complex permutations, the bass line has evolved into straight quarter notes.  onnnnnne - rest - threeeee - rest.  The rests are choked sharply, so that the release becomes a purcussive note.


You can hear that quite clearly on the Paul VId too, there's a little chirp of fret buzz on the release of each note, exactly in time.  NIce.  I'm sure it's been there all along in all his recordings, adding a little percussive flavor.


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Emil "Gus" Gawaziuk

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2008, 09:51:32 PM »

Something else you may notice is a lot of players seldom use open a, d, or g (standard tuning for simplicity) unless absolutely necessary.  Once again, for reasons of crispness to the note, and also for moving to the next note.  One thing I was shown when I first started playing 18 years ago was to avoid using an open string if at all possible.  I didn't "get" it at the time, but several years later it became more and more apparent as I diversified what I was learning/playing/writing.  

Also, there is no such thing as "correct" fret hand posture.  The correct way is the way that is comfortable for the player.  If you have to hang your thumb over, then do so (hell, use it to fret a note if you want!).  That little bit of fret buzz is just fine, and also gives a great indicator of a smooth consistent note release timing.  I like it, and really makes me feel OK with my playing as I try not to avoid little buzzes like that at all anymore.

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #26 on: July 29, 2008, 01:15:41 AM »

Emil "Gus" Gawaziuk wrote on Mon, 28 July 2008 18:51


Also, there is no such thing as "correct" fret hand posture.  The correct way is the way that is comfortable for the player.  If you have to hang your thumb over, then do so (hell, use it to fret a note if you want!).  



"Correct" can be comfortable, once you build the finger strength.  Hanging your thumb over the neck is like walking knee-deep in the mud.  You can do it, but it's awfully slow and inefficient.
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wwittman

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #27 on: July 29, 2008, 01:39:59 AM »

Tom L wrote on Sat, 26 July 2008 22:23

rankus wrote on Sat, 26 July 2008 10:10


Also of note is that plucking with the thumb adds more bottom generally and is  a bit more "tubby" than fingers. Another aspect of that Paul sound IMO.


I've always been fascinated by how he uses his thumb.  His control of it and that thumpy attack. Signature sound.  Not to mention being so melodic yet rock solid anchored. Oh yeah, and totally groovin, and...




although MOST of his greatest stuff was played with a pick
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William Wittman
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wwittman

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #28 on: July 29, 2008, 01:43:28 AM »

McAllister wrote on Mon, 28 July 2008 13:14

Quote:


and it is actually not the correct way to do that, despite it being done by one of the planet's most instantly recognisable bass masters. The correct way to control sustain is by using the fingers doing the plucking (damping the string between plucks). This gives a much more elegant result, but results in less pulsation (depending on the skill of the player). No fret buzz or unintended modulation occurs if done "the correct way", but McCartney's method can give better results for some circumstances.



Huh.

I've been playing bass for a lot of years and have never heard there is a "correct way" to control sustain.

Bottom line: it either works or it doesn't. The technique that gets you there is irrelevant.

"Hello, Sir Paul, did you know that you've actually been doing it wrong?"

M


FWIW, without thinking too much about it, I THINK I almost ALWAYS lift my finger pressure between notes, (like Paul is doing there) and if necessary ADD palm muting with my right hand when playing with a pick, or finger muting if plucking.

But I think it also keeps my left (fretting) hand in the rhythm
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William Wittman
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wwittman

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Re: Question for William on bass playing
« Reply #29 on: July 29, 2008, 01:44:39 AM »

Devin Knutson wrote on Mon, 28 July 2008 15:38

As an add on to all the great advice given already, my take is that many guitar players, because of the way they are used to constructing phrases, often just don't hear rests as musical.  On bass, the note-off is just as important, sometimes moreso, than the note-on.

I'm working a tune right now, and after many more complex permutations, the bass line has evolved into straight quarter notes.  onnnnnne - rest - threeeee - rest.  The rests are choked sharply, so that the release becomes a purcussive note.



yes, and you might try, assuming there is a snare on 2 and 4, to release the not JUST exactly on the snare hit so that it almost feels like the snare is 'playing" the rest
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William Wittman
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