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Author Topic: ELA M 251: Is It REALLY Worth $23,500?  (Read 20606 times)

J.J. Blair

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ELA M 251: Is It REALLY Worth $23,500?
« on: May 04, 2008, 02:24:31 AM »

One is listed on eBay for that much right now.  Do you really think somebody will buy it at that price, and do you really think these mics are worth that much money?  I don't.

   http://cgi.ebay.com/Telefunken-ELA-M-251-E-mint-vintage-orig    inal_W0QQitemZ220231243364QQihZ012QQcategoryZ64449QQssPageNa meZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

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Offered for sale is a spectacular, all-original, vintage Telefunken ELA M251 E. I have owned this microphone for about 12 years, having purchased it from the family of an audio engineer who passed away. As I understand it, he purchased this 251 new, 50-some years ago, and used it very scarcely before getting out of the business altogether.

This is not a USA replica. It is a completely authentic, vintage, original 251 in like-new condition, with only the tiniest of nicks anywhere on it, and a very minor bit of scuffing on the swivel/stand-mount. It sounds absolutely incredible. This is easily the finest example of a vintage 251 I've ever seen or heard anywhere. Over the years, I have satisfied my curiosity by comparing it to some other good 251s in other studios. If you're looking, you probably already know what you're looking at, but this is truly a mic of a lifetime, and an investment sure to appreciate in value. Please feel free to contact me with any and all specific questions, which I will do my best to answer thoroughly. You can also contact me and I'll provide a phone number if you'd like to discuss any aspect in depth.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

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"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

sui-city

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2008, 04:13:31 AM »

sold!

You've got to admit, it does look mint.
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delcosmos

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2008, 05:34:52 AM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 04 May 2008 01:24

 Do you really think somebody will buy it at that price, and do you really think these mics are worth that much money?


Yes, and yes.  Very Happy



delcosmos.
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Silvertone

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2008, 07:16:51 AM »

Sound-wise I'd say no mic is worth that much money (even 10K is pushing it for any quality vintage mic).

However since there were only roughly 2200 of those Elam mics made I'd say yes from a collectors/rare factor. Only 2200 of them... if it was a Fender Strat or Les Paul Goldtop it would fetch much much more, so go figure.
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Larry DeVivo
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To see some of our work please click on any of the visual trailer montages located at... http://robertetoll.com/  (all music and sound effects were mastered by Silvertone Mastering).

compasspnt

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2008, 08:36:13 AM »

Beautiful specimen.  Overpriced, I agree.

But who in their right mind would EVER buy a microphone that did not come from the factory with a "spider mount"?  How can you even record without one?

index.php/fa/8743/0/

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bblackwood

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2008, 08:39:55 AM »

I've actually held this very mic and even the pics don't do it justice - it's stunningly mint.

High price? Sure. But if ever one has been worth this price, it's this one. Simply perfect.
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Brad Blackwood
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billiard

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2008, 10:32:36 AM »

bblackwood wrote on Sun, 04 May 2008 08:39

I've actually held this very mic and even the pics don't do it justice - it's stunningly mint.....


Mint certainly seems to be the appropriate word.


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"I don't know anything about music. In my line you don't have to."   - Elvis Presley

J.J. Blair

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2008, 11:46:41 AM »

delcosmos wrote on Sun, 04 May 2008 02:34

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 04 May 2008 01:24

 Do you really think somebody will buy it at that price, and do you really think these mics are worth that much money?


Yes, and yes.  Very Happy

delcosmos.


Some people have more money than common sense, I suppose.  The alleged words of PT Barnum come to mind.

Del, remind me to call you if I ever sell my '58 Les Paul.
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Barry Hufker

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2008, 12:02:11 PM »

This auction ended through "Buy It Now".  Someone paid full price...
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MagnetoSound

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2008, 12:14:51 PM »

The thing about 'mint' is,

it's only 'mint' until it isn't.

It only takes one little ding and you've lost five grand.


Ah, well ....


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Music can make me get right up out of my chair and start dancing or it can get me so pumped up I have to walk around the block.
It can also knock me back and make me sit there and cry like a little baby. This shit is as powerful as any drug!!!
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Barry Hufker

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2008, 12:51:37 PM »

This isn't a mic you use.  This is one you buy as a collector and wait for it to accrue in value.  What you say is exactly what's wrong with a mic in such nice shape.
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MagnetoSound

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2008, 01:13:23 PM »

I agree - and that was exactly my point. The more value it accrues the less likely it will ever get used again.

What a shame it didn't get used more by the original owner. I know they look great but they're tools, not works of art.

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Music can make me get right up out of my chair and start dancing or it can get me so pumped up I have to walk around the block.
It can also knock me back and make me sit there and cry like a little baby. This shit is as powerful as any drug!!!
- Larry DeVivo

Barry Hufker

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2008, 02:26:06 PM »

Well on a certain level even tools can be works of art.  You'd be surprised by the number of people who collect old tools, such as awls, hammers, drills, etc.  Remember, Forbes Magazine named the ELA M251 as one of the best investments of the 20th century...

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delcosmos

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2008, 02:54:04 PM »

Well, I disagree, I don't have more money than common sense, obviously I woud like to pay $1000 for a mic like this, but these days it's impossible.
If you are a producer, recording engeneer, musician, COLLECTOR and you also have the money to get one of these baby's, what's the problem with that? Even more if you work every day on projects that worth having a mic of this level.

This is an investment that grows up every year and also sounds fantastic.

Best regards.

delcosmos.
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Extreme Mixing

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2008, 03:48:35 PM »

Wow.  If ever there was "recording engineer porn" those pictures of that microphone are it!!!  I'd rather look at that than a Scandinavian girl on a bearskin rug.

Sadly, same as with the Scandinavian girl, it's too much money for me...

Steve

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #15 on: May 04, 2008, 05:18:38 PM »

Musicians make similar investments in violins, celli, etc.  An instrument from the 19th Century can run in the hundreds of thousands, yet they are played daily, and when the time comes to sell, the investment is recouped.  Some instruments do end up in collectors cases, but if unplayed for too long, they can lose their sound.  I wonder if the same holds for a mic like this.  Does it lose that magical tone if it sits idle for too long?

Then there are collectors wines that are undrinkable yet fetch many thousands for a bottle.  The only function of such as bottle of wine is that someone might be willing to pay even more for it down the line.
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Markus Sauschlager

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2008, 07:19:09 PM »

Imagine the day when that mic's capsule starts to fail...
And that day quite sure will come.  Rolling Eyes
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Markus Sauschlager

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Barry Hufker

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2008, 07:43:35 PM »

I don't disagree but you're not thinking like a collector.  If you watch Public Television's "Antique Road Show", then you know that as long as the item is completely original, working or not, it is worth far more than if it's been restored.


EDIT: Maybe you don't get ARS in Australia.  Sorry.
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danickstr

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2008, 10:31:12 PM »

speaking of sexy on a bearskin rug, it was on some sort of furry shag.

If I had the lack of sense to buy it, I would not have wanted to use it, so that kind of defeats the purpose.
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compasspnt

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2008, 11:07:32 PM »

I considered buying this, just as I seriously considered the "new" U-47 last year.  Had I bought either or both, I would have used them.

But obviously very carefully.

I didn't buy either because I just have too many things already.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2008, 02:29:13 AM »

Del Cosmos ... so was it you who bought it?
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

delcosmos

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2008, 04:18:24 AM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 05 May 2008 01:29

Del Cosmos ... so was it you who bought it?


Not that one.

A few weeks ago I bought from Vintage King this beautiful ELAM 250, I feel more comfortable buying from VK than ebay, you know, with VK I got Warranty, service, you can trust that they are not selling you a clone or something so it worth paying a little bit more knowing that you are getting an original system.



Best regards.

delcosmos.
index.php/fa/8753/0/
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Frankenheimer

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2008, 04:35:31 AM »

From the engineer side, in my opinion, the price is much too high. I didn't find that there is much difference with my 414's compared with a V76 Preamp.Also the ELAM 250 is harder to find than a ELAM 251. So forbes is commenting that mic ? Why not spendind money on purchasing a CMV3 mic ? Isn't it rare enough for a collector.

Franz
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delcosmos

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2008, 04:43:41 AM »

A true collector should have the ELAM and the CMV3!! Very Happy
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Markus Sauschlager

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2008, 08:01:26 AM »

Barry Hufker wrote on Mon, 05 May 2008 01:43

I don't disagree but you're not thinking like a collector.  If you watch Public Television's "Antique Road Show", then you know that as long as the item is completely original, working or not, it is worth far more than if it's been restored.


EDIT: Maybe you don't get ARS in Australia.  Sorry.


Well then I'm really not thinking like a collector, because if it doesn't work as it should it's worth close to nothing for me...

BTW, Barry: we don't have kangaroos in Vienna! (well maybe in the Sch
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Markus Sauschlager

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Barry Hufker

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2008, 11:20:30 AM »

Sorry Markus for the mistake of reading Australia for Austria.  I'm ashamed to say I made the same mistake in 8th grade and got the answer wrong on the exam.  I guess I just don't learn from my mistakes.

Really?  No kangaroos in Austria?  What about Koalas?

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J.J. Blair

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2008, 11:33:50 AM »

delcosmos wrote on Mon, 05 May 2008 01:18

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 05 May 2008 01:29

Del Cosmos ... so was it you who bought it?


Not that one.

A few weeks ago I bought from Vintage King this beautiful ELAM 250, I feel more comfortable buying from VK than ebay, you know, with VK I got Warranty, service, you can trust that they are not selling you a clone or something so it worth paying a little bit more knowing that you are getting an original system.


Congrats!  That's a gorgeous one.  
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Fig

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2008, 11:55:46 AM »

Indeed worth every penny - and I would certainly use it.

Fig
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delcosmos

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2008, 04:58:25 PM »

Yeah, those guys got this kind of gear in the 70's, 80's and even 90's at ridiculously low prices. Now you have to spend a fortune to get a decent U47, Ela M250, Fairchild 670, a Pultec, a C12, a C24, U67, etc, etc.

Best regards.

Delcosmos.
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J.J. Blair

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #29 on: May 05, 2008, 05:43:00 PM »

Well, the fact of the matter is that commercial recording studios cannot buy a locker full of mics at $10,000+, Fairchilds at $20,000+ or a rack full of vintage Neve module $4,000, these days. It's not the old days, where people HAD to come to a recording studio, so you could pay through the nose for things, and know you were going to be booked solid at $2,500/day.  It's the people such as yourself, who are producers or songwriters making their money off royalties, who can pay these prices and put things things in studios they own, that aren't dependent on bookings.  Studio rates are taking a beating.  If you are making your money off the front end, the impression I get from talking to studio managers and owners these days is that there's no way you can justify paying for gear like this, and hope to make your rent at the same time.  

Maybe Terry can share his thoughts on it, since he owns and operates a high end facility that still stays regularly booked.

I know several rooms where big records get done that can't seem to even afford to keep their mics working properly all the time.  
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

compasspnt

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #30 on: May 05, 2008, 06:13:19 PM »

JJ, if we were *just* a commercial studio, we probably wouldn't keep the doors open.  A *real* studio today  has to be a tool for another segment of the business.

But no, if I didn't already have great vintage microphones, instruments, etc., we could never get them today and hope to get ROI.
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #31 on: May 05, 2008, 07:53:22 PM »

Silvertone wrote on Sun, 04 May 2008 04:16

...
However since there were only roughly 2200 of those Elam mics made....


Where did you get that number? Can you corroborate any high-serial number ELA Ms?
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Barry Hufker

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2008, 12:22:48 AM »

I'm guessing right now that the ebay 251 is currently a 24.5K mic.  Make him an offer to buy it and you'll see the price skyrocket.
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kats

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Re: is a Ela M-251 REALLY worth $23,500?
« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2008, 11:04:04 AM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Mon, 05 May 2008 22:43

 If you are making your money off the front end, the impression I get from talking to studio managers and owners these days is that there's no way you can justify paying for gear like this, and hope to make your rent at the same time.  



That's not an unusual reality in any industry though, is it?
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