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Author Topic: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?  (Read 71711 times)

Plush

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #30 on: April 10, 2008, 05:47:56 PM »

Thank you, Mr. Hudson.
I appreciate your "eyes only" report about the Wunder alu capsules in the Wunder M50.
This is important to know and is the first I have heard of a mic freak offering a modern alu capsule.

I'm also a Hudson.

with appreciation,
PhlushPhonic
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Hudson Fair
Atelier HudSonic, Chicago

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J.J. Blair

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #31 on: April 10, 2008, 09:22:21 PM »

Steve, thanks for confirming my recollection.  
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They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Alan Meyerson

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2008, 12:06:06 AM »

Plush wrote on Tue, 08 April 2008 16:35


What would you like to change about the sound of your current set-up?

Alan---I really enjoyed your score recording of "Vantage Point."  Very nice work!


Thanks so much for the compliment Plush. Much appreciated...
Whats wrong with my setup now? Nothing. It works great but, as most people who would read this forum would understand, I have a lifelong goal of getting better.

I had a beautiful dinner with Prof. Keith O. Johnson (Reference Recording). I consider him to be the finest orchestral engineer I have ever heard. We had a long and detailed conversation about techniques. He was very interested in the "hybrid" world I live in. I was actually mixing Vantage Point when he came. He had never seen a modern film music mix and he was blown away with the 500 tracks, 4 Protools rigs....etc. He was also, to my great joy, very complimentary of my recording.

I think his recording are, by far, the most depthful, 3D recordings I have heard. Although it wouldn't translate to film score exactly, there are elements that I took away from my conversation that I have applied.

The reason for telling this long boring story- we both tried to figure out how to take our stuff to the next level.

Hopefully, I'll never figure it out, because the journey is a ball!

Alan

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Plush

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #33 on: April 13, 2008, 10:17:38 AM »

Hello Alan et al,

Yes, for sure Keith Johnson is a master. He employs solid by the book techniques augmented by radical room boundary micing and some special unorthodox mic placements. I have visited some of his hall set-up sessions here in Chicago when he was working at DePaul Univ. His sound is particularly 3D.
Incorporating more of that depth is something that orchestral recording people should  attempt to refine each year. Of course the simplest techniques offer up the sound with the most depth. ie. Blumlein and ORTF stereo mic set-ups.

Of course the journey is worth the trip (sic) and the revelatory moments (like a recent  recording/mixing a Bruckner 7) is worth all the work.    

I used to visit the Radford stage in LA and I always thought it looked like a very flexible gymnasium type room.  Now that it is closed, what are the scoring rooms of choice in Los Angeles?  

As far as alternatives to the real M50 and M49, I vote for the FLEA mics.
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Hudson Fair
Atelier HudSonic, Chicago

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Barry Hufker

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #34 on: April 13, 2008, 11:36:30 AM »

As far as alternatives to the real M50 and M49, I vote for the FLEA mics.

Even before hearing Wunder's aluminum capsules?  Or have you heard them.
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Alan Meyerson

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #35 on: April 13, 2008, 11:29:56 PM »

Plush wrote on Sun, 13 April 2008 15:17


...We will miss Todd AO (scoring Stage.)

I was fortunate enough to do the last session at Todd. It was a sad night.

We have MGM/Sony. It's a great stage, very big. I just did M. Night Shylaman's new movie, The Happening there.
We had 104 players and it sounded great. You can see session pictures on scoringsessions.com
We have Fox, and also Warner Bros. Both great places. But it's tough. I go up to Skywalker alot and have a feeling that will happen more and more.

I'm going to experiment more with DPA 4006 with balls. When the Wunder mic comes I'll give it a good look.

Plush, I'd love to hear your Bruckner!!
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2008, 02:33:35 AM »

Alan, have you tried the Bova Balls, by any chance?
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Alan Meyerson

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2008, 04:36:51 AM »

Haven't tried the Bova Balls
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compasspnt

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2008, 07:01:15 PM »

I really like my Bova Ball microphones (and the Bova preamps), but I have unfortunately not tried them on orchestra, or in D-tree config.

Must do that.

They have been very good on percussion, acoustic guitar, piano, and even lead vocal (used as "ambient" mic in conjunction w/U-47, but when solo'd, would have worked fine for entire vocal sound).  That was the Cat Power song on "The Hottest State" soundtrack.
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KB_S1

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2008, 11:58:51 AM »

I will try the Bova Balls on a string quartet this weekend and report back.
Not a full orchestra obviously but a good indication of how they may fare.

I am keen to hear more on the FLEA mics.
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Barry Hufker

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #40 on: April 15, 2008, 01:39:59 PM »

I'm really hoping Hudson will comment on the Wunder M50s...
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Plush

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #41 on: April 15, 2008, 03:12:19 PM »

Hiya Barry,

I bought a FLEA 49 at the end of last year and started using it this Jan. The thing is sounding and behaving like a real 49. I endorse it and I hail its sound.

The FLEA 50 uses a gold capsule of the correct size in the sphere. Sound is quite good and faithful to the real M50. The price is reasonable.  I did not buy it because I already have real M50's here.

As we know, Neumann themselves equipped a LOT of M50 mics with a gold capsule (after 1968) and claimed no big deal--it has the same sound they said.  

I have not heard the Wunder M50 version. We know that it is a modified (greatly modified when using an ALU capsule) FLEA.

I can only stand by as others use the Wunder 50's and then send in their report.

My endorsement of FLEA is based on hearing the FLEA 49 and FLEA 50 and using the FLEA 49---an authentic 49 sound in every way.

As Tony Faulkner told me in his  kitchen one day, "I have to have so many  M50's here because at any one time several are making a buzzing noise."
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Hudson Fair
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Klaus Heyne

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #42 on: April 15, 2008, 03:52:44 PM »

Plush wrote on Tue, 15 April 2008 12:12

...
As we know, Neumann themselves equipped a LOT of M50 mics with a gold capsule (after 1968) and claimed no big deal--it has the same sound they said.


I have not seen that claim by Neumann. Can you post it? It is not credible on account of the entirely unrelated capsule designs, and certainly, once you hear KK50 and KK83 -equipped M50 side by side, no one in his right mind would make such a claim.  

Quote:


As Tony Faulkner told me in his  kitchen one day, "I have to have so many  M50's here because at any one time several are making a buzzing noise."


..because Tony may not have maintained these mics appropriately; a service these and any other precious tube mics require, just like any tool one depends on. If anything, Neumann mics, especially M49/M50, are some of the more reliable, well-designed specimens out there.
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Klaus Heyne
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J.J. Blair

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #43 on: April 15, 2008, 06:23:14 PM »

Hudson, unless I am wrong, and if anybody knows to the contrary, please correct me, FLEA only supplies the bodies to Wunder and Tele-USA (only the 47 in their case), and they assemble the mics themselves.  Also, would you mind telling me what tube FLEA is using in their 49?  Are they using a Telefunken AC701K?  And are they using genuine Neumann K47s?
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studio info

They say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years.

"The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher

"The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham

Barry Hufker

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Re: Alternatives To Neumann M150's For DECCA Tree?
« Reply #44 on: April 15, 2008, 06:53:47 PM »

Thanks Hudson!
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