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[frankj]

I really like the sound of the Sennheiser MD 409 on electric guitar amps and have started shopping for one. The Grundig GDSM 200 apparently has the same capsule and I can get two of these microphones for roughly the same price as the MD 409.

I know this is a subjective question, but are these microphones almost identical in sound, due to sharing an identical capsule?

[amorris]

Having just opened my 409, I would guess that if they do have the exact capsule, they should sound pretty close to the same. there doesnt seem to be any magic in the frame or enclosure of the 409. but, many times when the same capsules are used in different mics, and especially different front badges, they are technically the same capsules, only one brand has the "better" tested capsules and the other brand gets the "rejects". I dont know what the situation is here, but just food for thought.

[J.J. Blair]

I have both.  I'll be darned if they aren't identical.  The Grundig was made by Sennheiser.

[hopsing]

Hi

A little of topic, but related question.
I have a md 408 and somebody ( I think J.J.) wrote on this forum, that it has the same capsule as the 409. I asked Sennheiser and they said that this is not the case, since the md408 is hypercardioid and the the md409 cardioid.
Since I never owned a 409 I cannot compare myself, but I find, that the 408 has a very distinct bass rolloff from 200Hz down. making it unusable for toms and the like. On guitar it is ok sometimes since those frequencys often fight with the bass and I tend to shelf them anyway, but still it is not one of my favorites on a guitar cab (compared to a bayerdynamic m160 e.g.) and it is for sure not very versatile.
Is this rolloff the same with md409?
On the frequency charts for the md409 there seems to be a rolloff but not that much and there is no published chart for the md408 on the sennheiser website.
Thanks for help
Tobias

[J.J. Blair]

Tobias, as far as I was able to determine, the coil element is the same.  I think the pattern differences were due to the aluminum casing that goes around the element in the 409 that is not present in the 408.  I used one of those 408 elements to replace a defective one in an older MD409-N, seating it inside the aluminum housing.  I haven't measured it with a scope or anything, but in A/B comparisons, it's practically identical to my MD-409-U3s.  

I know the Sennheiser paperwork shows the pattern differences between the capsules, but I'm curious if anybody still there had any experience building or designing the two.  I mean, I may be wrong, but I'll be shocked if the difference between the two capsules is anything but that aluminum casing.  

[panman]

J.J. Blair wrote on Sun, 30 March 2008 22:49

I mean, I may be wrong, but I'll be shocked if the difference between the two capsules is anything but that aluminum casing.

J.J., I agree with you, since I have been experimenting with these Grundig/Sennheiser capsules somewhat. They are very consistent in quality. I however never had a MD 408 and I cannot combine two things: hypercardioid and that afore-mentioned "very distinct bass rolloff from 200 Hz down". I find this very unlikely a combination.
Is it possible that MD 408 is an omni and not hypercardioid? I do not have access to my archives until next week, so I cannot check it out right now. I once fitted this capsule into a MD 21 and it became an omni in that process and a noticeable bass rolloff happened.
Regards,
       Esa

[hopsing]

Thanks for the responses!
I am surprised, that the housing has such an influence on pattern and frequency response. Maybe I should look out for a broken md409 and put the element in there to have a more usable microphone.
The response from sennheiser sounded indeed a little bit like they just had a look at the datasheets, and not like first hand knowledge.
But the 408 has a pretty accentuated cardioid pattern and that bass rolloff, I can hear that clearly.
Tobias

[frankj]

I'm curious if the newer models like the 609 and 906 have the aluminum casing you are talking about.

It would be less expensive  to buy a 408 and a 609 and put the capsule of the 408 in to the 609 than to buy a 409. It would be worth the hassle to me if that combo would sound like the 409.

[J.J. Blair]

No.  The 609 and 906 are made differently, IIRC.  

[rodabod]

panman wrote on Mon, 31 March 2008 13:00

I once fitted this capsule into a MD 21 and it became an omni in that process and a noticeable bass rolloff happened.

I thought the MD408 had a smaller capsule? I can't remember exactly.

Fitting a capsule in a new hosuing can affect the polar response. If you force it towards an omni response by blocking the venting at the rear then you will approach a pressure microphone which will have a rising response since the output level is relative to velocity.

I have the GDSM200 and various other mics using the MD409 capsule though some model names shall remain nameless to stop prices rocketing stupidly! I should really compare these mics one day.

[panman]

rodabod wrote on Tue, 01 April 2008 01:46

I thought the MD408 had a smaller capsule?........though some model names shall remain nameless to stop prices rocketing stupidly!

Roddy, I think what you are refering to is the shock-mount/alu-casing of the MD 409 capsule, which makes it look bigger. My guess is MD 408 is without it, but I believe J.J. can confirm that.
I agree to the latter part. It is a fact, that those models mentioned here have gone up in price and the sellers on Ebay never forget to mention the MD 409 connection.
Regards,
       Esa

[frankj]

Thanks for all of the great responses to my post.

I found the Sennheiser MDS-1 on Ebay, which was advertised as 2 409s. I paid the same price as one 409 selling on Ebay.

I hope that these can capture that sound.

At the base of the microphone is a thread for direct attachment to a microphone stand that is somewhat inconvenient,

I'm curious if anyone knows of an attachment for that microphone (the 403 has the same thread) that would allow the manipulation options of a mic clip.

[J.J. Blair]

Frank, you can separate the two capsules and use them individually.  They pop right out of the mount.  But you need an adapter to use them with a normal mic stand.  They have that small sized threading.  I think it's 3/8'?  Anybody know the size?

[simolino]

thread is 3/8" alright ,
3/8" male to 5/8" female about $1.50 each at the music store

[frankj]

Thanks. I have several of those lying around.

Funny how those things accumulate.