...So, is mic X using a single backplate,
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Michael Aarvold Audio Engineer
« Reply #77 on: June 26, 2008, 01:08:21 PM »
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 17:01 | So, is mic X using a single backplate,
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« Reply #78 on: June 26, 2008, 01:19:47 PM »
billiard wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 02:02 | When you try to create a big mystery —on a forum— and then will reveal the solution only to a select few who happened to arrive in time and played
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Sorry, this was never the plan. What I suggested to do was to personally PM each and everyone that chose to participate, regardless of when they did so. By not posting the "answers", we could have kept the some of the fun in the guessing going longer (for late arrivers). Martin
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« Reply #79 on: June 26, 2008, 06:18:39 PM »
Thanks Martin for the info! Now the correlation between the differences in your and my test is fascinating me even more as there is hardly any correlation in the mics nor the rest of the chain – I wonder how they would compare on an absolute basis – same source - and unprocessed (just for my personal curiousity of course, otherwise that doesn’t really matter…) Anyway, thanks for that thread – I also enjoy the fact that the candidates were solid state mics, with the generally preferred one being even transformerless! All the best for that project! Markus
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Markus Sauschlager
- Schauma amal, dann werma schon sehen... -
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« Reply #80 on: June 26, 2008, 10:29:16 PM »
Martin Kantola wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 10:08 |
J.J. Blair wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 17:01 | So, is mic X using a single backplate,
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studio infoThey say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years. "The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher "The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
« Reply #81 on: June 27, 2008, 05:22:48 AM »
J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 27 June 2008 03:29 | That same phase shift doesn't seem to be there in M7, K47 single backplate designs, from what I can hear. It's like that acoustic network in the backplates is the culprit or something.
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This is one of the things I'm hoping we can learn more about in my upcoming "massive" M7/K47 test. Personally, I have always preferred the M7 and suspected it had something to do with the backplate design. Should I throw in a dual-backplate too? Would it be an idea to upload the test files for blind listening first? Sorry to keep you guys waiting for the test, but it takes a lot of time to set up and do. Sounds easy, but it isn't if you want to do it properly. One whole studio day might not be enough. Martin
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« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2008, 05:28:14 AM »
Although I am certainly not an expert in microphone making, I expect the difference between dual or single backplate constructions more audible when the microphone is switched either to omni or figure of eight.
Erik Sikkema
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Bill Mueller:"Only very recently, has the availability of cheap consumer based gear popularized the concept of a rank amateur as an audio engineer. Unfortunately, this has also degraded the reputation of the audio engineer to the lowest level in its history. A sad thing indeed for those of us professionals."
« Reply #83 on: June 27, 2008, 08:57:55 AM »
Markus Sauschlager wrote on Thu, 26 June 2008 17:18 | Thanks Martin for the info! Now the correlation between the differences in your and my test is fascinating me even more as there is hardly any correlation in the mics nor the rest of the chain – I wonder how they would compare on an absolute basis – same source - and unprocessed (just for my personal curiousity of course, otherwise that doesn’t really matter…) Anyway, thanks for that thread – I also enjoy the fact that the candidates were solid state mics, with the generally preferred one being even transformerless!
All the best for that project!
Markus
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yes, but it was highly processed, passing through a tube preamp, eq etc. etc.. and the Y mic is not exactly a top microphone in many people's opinion. When I listen to an LDC it's not primarily for voice, I use them for everything.. with a transformerless design the parts count goes up.. and with the parts count also the distortion of each component becomes part of the system. most people heard some rasp in the voice, which is typical of SS distortion. if there was a way to couple the mic to preamp with only one active element without using a transformer, eliminating noise etc. I would prefer that.. but so far the only way to have just one active component is to use a step-down transformer..
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I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy .. in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry and music. John Adams (1735-1826) 2nd President, United States
« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2008, 01:28:27 PM »
Comparing to a lot of other things I've been working on, I wouldn't exactly call it "highly processed". And nevertheless it still sounded great, so who cares.
Now that you know that Y was a U87ai, suddenly it sounds even worse? It seems that microphone works when you need to record something.
The "rasp" in microphone X may be distortion, but if so it was of the good kind that I'd love to get.
As if the U47 was ever a totally clean microphone to begin with... It doesn't need to be 100% clean when it's that good.
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"T(Z)= (n1+n2*Z^-1+n2*Z^-2)/(1+d1*z^-1+d2*z^-2)" - Mr. Dan Lavry "Shaw baa laa raaw, sidle' yaa doot in dee splaa" . Mr Shooby Taylor
« Reply #85 on: June 27, 2008, 08:12:57 PM »
I never liked the u87Ai..
and if it weren't for my being convinced (maybe from the name of martin's activity) that he was using tubes, I would have written that Y sounded unusually pinched like a FET (to my ears fets sound pinched).. which is what I actually thought, but did not mention..
I thought both mics were his contraptions..
this is where suggestion steps in..
martin's fet mic did not sound pinched.. which is good..
FROM EXPERIENCE, I know that FET circuits which have little neg feedback always have that 'grit'..even though they may be close to ideal..
the U77 comes to mind, when I think of grit...
it's the FET grit.. you cannot get away from it, unless you use more feedback.. which is what Neumann did with the tiny caps on the first stage of most of it's mics..
anyway..
if we CONTINUE with this thread, and more tests.. I think that we will all get used to the context of the listening tests and be able to judge with more precision.. maybe learning something along the way about listening to mic circuits and capsules..
it takes time and effort to be objective..
P.S. I consider the U47 to be the most realistic-sounding condenser ever built... all things considering (incl. performance)
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I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy .. in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry and music. John Adams (1735-1826) 2nd President, United States
« Reply #86 on: June 27, 2008, 09:06:11 PM »
Schallfeldnebel wrote on Fri, 27 June 2008 02:28 | Although I am certainly not an expert in microphone making, I expect the difference between dual or single backplate constructions more audible when the microphone is switched either to omni or figure of eight.
Erik Sikkema
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I have not found this to be the case.
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studio infoThey say the heart of Rock & Roll is still beating, which is amazing if you consider all the blow it's done over the years. "The Internet enables pompous blowhards to interact with other pompous blowhards in a big circle jerk of pomposity." - Bill Maher "The negative aspects of this business, not only will continue to prevail, but will continue to accelerate in madness. Conditions aren't going to get better, because the economics of rock and roll are getting closer and closer to the economics of Big Business America." - Bill Graham
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