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[JDNelson]

Okay, why do some folks seem to think this would be a good thing in a mic preamp?  And if it is then why not use DPA and Earthworks mic's, instead of Neumanns? Seems the whole idea is to make things sound as good as they can sound, not expose clinically every wart.

[Fibes]

JDNelson wrote on Mon, 10 December 2007 23:53

Okay, why do some folks seem to think this would be a good thing in a mic preamp?  And if it is then why not use DPA and Earthworks mic's, instead of Neumanns? Seems the whole idea is to make things sound as good as they can sound, not expose clinically every wart.

There is a world of orchestral music that relies on uncolored signal paths.



DPA, Schoeps etc. are their mics of choice...

[compasspnt]

So there is little orange or green orchestral music.

[E Merrill]

`

[Dave Martin]

Eric Merrill wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 09:48

`

Are you sure that it's not 20th Century music written by African Americans?

[JDNelson]

Right, I get that (should have acknowledged in my original post)... but the guys that are throwing this cliche around at GS or whatever are most likely not in the classical field.

This phrase seems to get thrown around a lot in conjunction with prosumer gear such as Grace and True pre-amps.  I mean, I think utterly transparent would be boring for rock and roll, wouldn't it?

And even in the context of classical music, weren't there a lot of great recordings from the 1950's etc. which were made with tube equipment, which hardly could have been transparent?

[Fibes]

JDNelson wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 12:49

This phrase seems to get thrown around a lot in conjunction with prosumer gear such as Grace and True pre-amps.  I mean, I think utterly transparent would be boring for rock and roll, wouldn't it? And even in the context of classical music, weren't there a lot of great recordings from the 1950's etc. which were made with tube equipment, which hardly could have been transparent?

The grace stuff i've used is hardly pro-sumer, and the true 2 channel is pretty hi-end.

transparent boring? This somehow feels a little like "party line" talk rather than reality and real world use. Some of the best stuff i've done was tracked on "clean" pres...


BTW properly designed, maintained and used tube gear can be as transparent as anything. The myths of tube warmth, color and all that jazz is a freaking ad-fodder crapfest IMNSHO.

Also, i can't read GS, it's infuriating, vaccuos, vapid and...

[JDNelson]

Kevin, would you say then that Grace or True preamps are well suited to recording general purpose R&R music?  

PS: I don't ascribe "warmth" so much to tube gear as I assume the transient response is more "rounded off" than (faster) FET topology.  Am I off base here?

[Dave Martin]

JDNelson wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 13:18

Kevin, would you say then that Grace or True preamps are well suited to recording general purpose R&R music?

I ain't Kevin, but sure, Grace preamps work fine on Rock and Roll records. I've also used 'em for western swing, country, pop, and bluegrass records. Quite honestly, if a rock and roll record is boring, it isn't the preamp's fault.

[johnR]

JDNelson wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 19:18

PS: I don't ascribe "warmth" so much to tube gear as I assume the transient response is more "rounded off" than (faster) FET topology.  Am I off base here?

Yes. Tubes are still used in high powered radio transmitters because there are no solid state devices with a high enough power rating that are fast enough. A decent audio tube output transformer will have a response well beyond 20kHz. Cascading more than a few of them will probably introduce an audible HF roll off, but a tube mic pre can have a very good transient response. It's usually the transformer that limits bandwidth in either tube or solid state gear.

[Fibes]

Dave Martin wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 14:34

JDNelson wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 13:18 Kevin, would you say then that Grace or True preamps are well suited to recording general purpose R&R music?   I ain't Kevin, but sure, Grace preamps work fine on Rock and Roll records. I've also used 'em for western swing, country, pop, and bluegrass records. Quite honestly, if a rock and roll record is boring, it isn't the preamp's fault.

Kevin agrees with Dave.


This may sound like heresy to some (especially at GS) but I can say that after a certain quality point the preamp has very little to do with the sonic results.

Moving mics, twisting mics, room placement, tuning, amp eq, drum sizeand a host of other things make a much larger impact on the results.


I am an API addict.

[compasspnt]

Fibes wrote on Tue, 11 December 2007 16:08

I am an API addict.

And you admit it.

That is the first step.

And that's what I like about you.

[Fig]

Like classical music - in rock -  if a snare drum, bass amp, guitar amp or voice sounds exactly like you want AT THE SOURCE, a colorless signal path is what is desired.

The times I try to color a sound is when the source isn't what I would prefer.  But if it sounds like we want it to already, the last thing I want to do is change that by using a colored mic, pre, or whathaveyou.

YMMV.

$0.02,

Fig

[Larry Villella]

The idea of a modular pre-amp has always appealed to me, so I finally got a couple of American Design-Engineers to build one.

I find it super-useful to be able to swap Op-Amps and Input Transformers to go from transparent to highly 'colored'.

For classical, I use a Forssell Tech Op-Amp.  For Rock and Roll I use the John Hardy.  For Vocals, a Lundahl Transformer
can round out the tone of a sibilant, nasal singer.  For Drums and Guitars the Jensen Transformer is just stunning!  

Why buy One Pre-amp when you can have a dozen permutations from the same Little Black Box. . .


Made in USA (So. California), built like a tank with a steel chassis, etc.  


It might just surprise you with it's super-usefulness and flexibility !!!


That said - Mic Technique and Gain-Staging are more important than whatever gear you'll ever put in the signal chain - for sure!!


Cheers!


Larry Villella, ADK)))

[Bodoc]

The music and arrangement have been chosen.  The players and sound sources have been chosen.  The acoustic space has been chosen.  The mike has been chosen.  The placement of the mike has been chosen.

If, through luck or meticulous selection you got just what you wanted, you just might want to leave it right there...with gain.

Of course, all the above might be musically enhanced with the critical selection of a pre to bring all of that somewhere else.

Either way, the selection of the pre should be an informed decision based on desired musical outcomes.

Sometimes, Yo-Yo Ma and his 1712 Davidoff Stradivarius doesn't need to be crayoned with a pre.