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Author Topic: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk  (Read 10408 times)

onekid

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1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« on: April 25, 2004, 10:09:57 AM »

I am currently mixing with a MOTU 192HD and simply bouncing to disk and creating CD Masters. I do not have a board and run everything from the micpre straight to the MOTU. I might have the oportunity to get a Nagra stereo deck for  good price. What do you think about mixing down this or any other affordable 1/4 deck as opposed to bouncing to disk? When I say affordable I mean under a grand. Are there any other recommendations in this area?
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Jeffrey Lonigro

Erik

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Re: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2004, 11:39:30 AM »

onekid wrote on Sun, 25 April 2004 10:09

I am currently mixing with a MOTU 192HD and simply bouncing to disk and creating CD Masters. I do not have a board and run everything from the micpre straight to the MOTU. I might have the oportunity to get a Nagra stereo deck for  good price. What do you think about mixing down this or any other affordable 1/4 deck as opposed to bouncing to disk? When I say affordable I mean under a grand. Are there any other recommendations in this area?


I don't think you're going to see a major difference.  The bounce to disk is not the weak link in your signal chain.

If you don't like the way your tracks are stacking up, you should invest first in the front end: good mics, good mic preamps, better A/D.

Also which model is the Nagra?  These still command firm prices used because they're popular in film/video circles.  They are NOT particularly "toobey mix fixer vibey" devices, despite the fact that they have tape and spinny things on them.

Shiny, though.

Nagra III are cheap because parts are drying up.  The IV is the one you want.  Check ebay completed auctions for current pricing (make sure you match the features) before you jump.

--Erik
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Erik Gavriluk, Bomb Factory Recording Studios
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ted nightshade

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Re: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2004, 12:17:12 PM »

Probably would do better just to track to the thing. I'd like to get a Nagra IV-S for that purpose. Live analog mixdown to 2 track.

In my experience, the little digital anomalies sound worse when amplified by the harmonic generation of the tape machine. So I don't think mixing down to tape from digital is likely to be a winner. Tracking to analog, and dumping to digital, is a way better idea, provided the analog deck is really healthy.
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Ted Nightshade aka Cowan

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Tim Halligan

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Re: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2004, 11:36:34 PM »

A Nagra IV-S in good condition will surely cost more than $1000. These are serious bits of kit. As I remember it, the Nagra III is a mono full track machine, so don't be tempted by a cheap one. I use an IV-S regularly for film/TV sound recording, and it is bulletproof as far as reliability, and a very good sounding machine. If you don't need the portability, you might look at the Nagra T. This is the studio deck that was designed to replay the tapes from the field recorders...and is just a stunning machine.

Cheers,
Tim
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Punkity

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Re: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2004, 12:33:15 PM »

The Nagra IV are solid machines for field recording. As far as mix-down decks go, they are OK. I own one and have used it in that capacity. They are CLEAN and that is about it. The tape compression is something that the Nagra designers wanted to account for, not embrace. The IV-SJ is a particularly interesting machine in this way. It is for noise analysis, and will go from uncompressed signal to distortion in no time flat. I'm not sure how they pulled it off but I've heard it and it is written in the manual. Something about the mic and line preamp design. You may also run into noise problems (max speed is 15 ips). Again the SJ is particularly bad in this way, but it is nothing Dolby SR can't fix.

I'm glad I didn't sell mine. It has a special place in my heart, but it just isn't practical unless I'm doing field recording (rare these days). But man, what a freaking beautiful machine (stroke, stroke, stroke).
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Punkity

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Re: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2004, 12:40:29 PM »

Oh yea, you have a two part question.

Regarding mixing to any quality two track 1/4 inch machine vs digital/in-the-box mixing ... um, er... that seems to be the question of the decade. I'd do searches in the old rec pit forums, Gear Slutz, etc.. Asking this question outright is not advisible. It will turn into a shitstorm and all the opinions are already out there.
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David Satz

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Re: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2004, 01:23:32 PM »

If you're thinking of using a Nagra IV-series recorder (including the stereo model) to add "tape squash" or "analog warmth" I think you may be barking up the wrong tree. Nagra IV-series recorders have anti-distortion circuitry which, at high recording levels, adds in the exact inverse signal of what the tape squash effect would be.

--best regards
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plughead

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Re: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2004, 02:15:41 PM »

FWIW,

A compadre regularly tracks thru his Nagra (IV), but just uses it's pre's, then directly into his DAW: he swears by it, (usually drum OH's) and often masters his mixes onto it, then back into the DAW: I haven't heard anything sonically "astounding" from this route, but again, YMMV...

PS: if you have T power, make sure it's off: it throws a 10 (or 15 k) squeal across a mix that you might find interesting at first, but later will drive you nuts (and all the dogs in the 'hood)...

best of luck,

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Tim Halligan

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Re: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« Reply #8 on: April 27, 2004, 06:57:12 AM »

Punkity wrote on Tue, 27 April 2004 00:33

 The IV-SJ is a particularly interesting machine in this way. It is for noise analysis, and will go from uncompressed signal to distortion in no time flat. I'm not sure how they pulled it off but I've heard it and it is written in the manual.
[Snip}
Again the SJ is particularly bad in this way, but it is nothing Dolby SR can't fix.

I'm glad I didn't sell mine. It has a special place in my heart, but it just isn't practical unless I'm doing field recording (rare these days). But man, what a freaking beautiful machine (stroke, stroke, stroke).


Punkity, is th SJ the machine with the dual concentric knobs for coarse/fine calibration, with the scale in absolute dBs? I've seen a machine like this that the local Environmental police use for measuring outdoor concert levels...bastards!

Also, did you ever try the Bryston SR for the IV-S...slings under the body? Awesome unit...15 ips/Nagra Master/SR...crystal...*sigh*...should have bought when we had the chance.

Cheers,
Tim
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Punkity

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Re: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« Reply #9 on: April 27, 2004, 04:47:37 PM »

Tim Halligan wrote on Tue, 27 April 2004 06:57



Punkity, is th SJ the machine with the dual concentric knobs for coarse/fine calibration, with the scale in absolute dBs? I've seen a machine like this that the local Environmental police use for measuring outdoor concert levels...bastards!

Also, did you ever try the Bryston SR for the IV-S...slings under the body? Awesome unit...15 ips/Nagra Master/SR...crystal...*sigh*...should have bought when we had the chance.

Cheers,
Tim


The SJ doesn't have concentric knobs for coarse and fine calibration. The coarse is above and the fine is under and overall the thing looks just like the regular "S". I think the Nagra III had this sort of control surface. The meter on the SJ does read absolute db, but only if you use the special preamps matched to particular B&O microphones (4 to 6 pres, one per mic), and one made for a special (I think) Sennheiser microphone. Given this, I doubt any police has the $$$ to purchace and properly maintain one of these things (needs a tuneup, around $300-500, once a year). If they do have one, they are fools. Just buy a normal db meter.

Yea I've used one of those Bryston SR things. Oh, holy crap! I've only seen two for sale ever. Never had the cash when I found them. I think they are the 280B. Oh jeeze, I'm just getting ready to pump some money into my set-up. I had damn well better not find one of those things. I wonder what Google has to say.

Oh lord, please god help me.
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Tim Halligan

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Re: 1/4" Nagra 2 Trk
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2004, 05:59:28 AM »

I seem to remember the Bryston SR module being about $4500 Australian in 1989...back when our dollar was actually worth something. Also, it was being distributed by the world's most overpriced pro-audio agents.
If I see one for reasonable $, I'll be sorely tempted...other priorities right now. As always, it's and either/or scenario.

Good luck with your search.
Cheers,
Tim
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"Don't forget, we are all engaged in a battle to the death against mediocrity." - J. Whynot

"You can tune a room only with a bulldozer." - Andy Peters
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