R/E/P Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]   Go Down

Author Topic: Audible Microphone Cable Changes  (Read 28548 times)

Markus Aalto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
Re: Audible Microphone Cable Changes
« Reply #105 on: July 20, 2007, 07:35:30 am »

Sommer Cable:
This is one very interesting high end cable:
 http://www.sommercable.com/2__produkte/2__1_meterware/2__200 _0281.html

It's about one year old cable type with very low capacitance. I have only one 5 meter sample piece yet but found it interesting.

Galileo is interesting less expensive "high end" cable too for studio use. I like this cable and use it in the studio. It's also mechanically strong. Quite thick but flexible.
 http://www.sommercable.com/2__produkte/2__1_meterware/2__200 _0271.html

Sommer cable is not so old and traditional manufacturer like some others but they have very innovative attitude and interesting products. They make also nice low capacitance and star quad multipair cables.

About Gotham cables:
Because i use cables mostly in live use the sound is not only aspect for selecting the cable. I've used Gotham in the past but found that they weren't long lasting in live use. The jacket is too soft and thin and breaks easily. It's the biggest problem. I don't understand why they doesn't make them stronger. Maybe in studio use it is not a problem. Gotham makes some special type with strong PUR jacket but haven't had possiblity to check it yet. (I've used Gac-2, Gac-1 and Gac-7 in the studio which is very good tube mic cable).

Anyway i try to keep more expensive and fine cables in the studio and use more durable brands and types on stage.... In live use i like very much Belden 1813A. It is about similar diameter cable than Gotham (quite thin. The jacket material is really strong and durable but still very flexible. I've bought  6 rolls yet (100m /328ft) in couple of years... It stays flexible in cold winter conditions too...  I don't know why Belden seems to be "out of fashion".

Not much audible opinions in this post but some experiences anyway.

Markus A, Finland


Logged

Barry Hufker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8228
Re: Audible Microphone Cable Changes
« Reply #106 on: July 20, 2007, 10:49:54 am »

Belden makes some very fine wire (cables).  I think part of the "problem" with them is that the company isn't "sexy" in any way.  There's no long-term association with a classic microphone company.  They also don't really advertise in recording magazines, seeming content to be used "industrially" rather than in personal studios.

Sommer Cable appears interesting.  I would request a sample but don't want an unending supply of catalogs showing up at my door.

Barry
Logged

mdemeyer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 41
Re: Audible Microphone Cable Changes
« Reply #107 on: July 21, 2007, 02:25:22 pm »

Not sure I understand the comment about the capacitance of the Sommer cable being low.  According to their specs for the SC-CARBOKAB 225:

ELECTRICAL DATA:
Capac. cond./cond. per 1 m 46 pF
Capac. cond./shield. per 1 m 90 pF

Compare this to Mogami 2549:

K1 (cond to cond): 11pF/m(3.4 pF/Ft)
K0 (cond to shield): 76pF/m(23 pF/Ft)

Not disputing the anything about your experience with the sound, but to claim very low capacitance is not correct.

Michael
Logged

Markus Aalto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
Re: Audible Microphone Cable Changes
« Reply #108 on: July 21, 2007, 03:38:29 pm »

mdemeyer wrote on Sat, 21 July 2007 21:25

Not sure I understand the comment about the capacitance of the Sommer cable being low.....


Ok. Not so sensational numbers but maybe lower than average i've seen. Must say i haven't read every manufacturers datasheets very carefully. Embarassed  It seems in Finland is currently no importer for Mogami cables. I don't have experience about them. I've been interested about 2549 but haven't had possiblity to get the cable yet. Importer of Neutrik connectors sells here Cordial cables so it's the reason why almost everbody uses them..... It is very usual cable brand in Europe. Basic cables.. nothing special.

Markus
Logged

Klaus Heyne

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3154
Re: Audible Microphone Cable Changes
« Reply #109 on: July 21, 2007, 09:06:03 pm »

Please all: I would appreciate it if you stay within the boundaries of this forum.

Please continue to share your personal experiences with cables, rather than give a listing of all the cables you have heard about being available and having this or that spec (unless you can correlate the specs to the sound!)

I will be merciless from now on, if that rule is violated- out of respect for the level of discussion that's been the norm and that I'd like to have continue here.

Much obliged,
Logged
Klaus Heyne
German Masterworks
www.GermanMasterworks.com

Tomas Danko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 4733
Re: Audible Microphone Cable Changes
« Reply #110 on: July 22, 2007, 02:48:02 pm »

Jim Williams wrote on Tue, 17 July 2007 16:42

Phase cancellation of two signals is limited by the resolution of the A/D converters which in pro audio is around -100 ~-105 dbu. Some are a bit better but are not commonly used.

Microphones and cables have resolution beyond that. Just because a digital signal phase cancels it doesn't mean the mic or cable is represented, only the converter resolution is.


I'd suggest analog phase cancellation through polarity reversal and summing, then.

At the end of the day however, if the difference won't make it through the A-D converter of choice when I record my music I'm not sure it is of interest to begin with.
Logged
http://www.danko.se/site-design/dankologo4s.gif
"T(Z)= (n1+n2*Z^-1+n2*Z^-2)/(1+d1*z^-1+d2*z^-2)" - Mr. Dan Lavry
"Shaw baa laa raaw, sidle' yaa doot in dee splaa" . Mr Shooby Taylor

mrdave1981

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1
Re: Audible microphone cable changes
« Reply #111 on: July 22, 2007, 10:15:48 pm »

Everyone,

For anyone interested in trying out the cable talked about in this discussion.  Gotham Audio GAC-3 and GAC-4/1 are currently both available on eBay.

I purchase directly from the US Distributor of Gotham Audio, LLC.

All the best.
DAVE

Logged

Barry Hufker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8228
Re: Audible microphone cable changes
« Reply #112 on: July 22, 2007, 11:36:50 pm »

I also suggest purchasing directly from Gotham as there is a professional discount (as I recall).

Barry
Logged

djosephson

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 55
Re: Audible Microphone Cable Changes
« Reply #113 on: July 27, 2007, 05:42:01 pm »

One creates a fairly complex electromagnetic circuit when plugging a mic into a cable, and a cable (in an electromagnetic environment) into a preamp. There are too many variables for there to be one "answer," although the double-shielded Gotham cable (particularly, for phantom powered mics, the GAC-3 which doesn't require the phantom current to flow on the shield) is a good start because it eliminates many of the problems before they can get started.

There could be a whole separate discussion on cleaning up microphone audio from the influences of local electromagnetic fields. I would suggest reading the AES papers Jim Brown and I wrote on RF susceptibility of condenser mics, which are available on his website www.audiosystemsgroup.com

The RF issue out of the way for the moment, the other discussion is about the interactions between the cable and the devices on either end. Transformerless mics tend to be the least influenced, transformer mics with buildout resistors a little more so, those without buildout resistors the most sensitive. Some mic preamps are well behaved, others have negative feedback applied to the input connectors and behave differently with different mics and cables attached.
Logged
--
David Josephson -- Josephson Engineering Inc -- www.josephson.com

Markus Aalto

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 97
Re: Audible Microphone Cable Changes
« Reply #114 on: October 05, 2007, 02:56:57 pm »

Markus Aalto wrote on Fri, 20 July 2007 14:35


About Gotham cables:
Because i use cables mostly in live use the sound is not only aspect for selecting the cable. I've used Gotham in the past but found that they weren't long lasting in live use. The jacket is too soft and thin and breaks easily. It's the biggest problem. I don't understand why they doesn't make them stronger. Maybe in studio use it is not a problem. Gotham makes some special type with strong PUR jacket but haven't had possiblity to check it yet. (I've used Gac-2, Gac-1 and Gac-7 in the studio which is very good tube mic cable).



I know this is slightly off topic but need to update my previous comment regarding Gotham GAC-2

Last time i've bought this cable was many years ago. Yesterday i got a new lot of grey GAC-2 cable and the jacket seems to be different than before. Thicker and different material than what i've had previously. I like this better. I don't know if all the different coloured GAC-2 versions uses the same materials.
Logged

Rich Mays

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 134
Re: Audible microphone cable changes
« Reply #115 on: October 06, 2007, 01:41:21 am »

Kees de Visser wrote on Wed, 27 June 2007 18:30

The Yamaha might be more stable. Any other ideas for a reproduceable source ?


A readily found source is a pipe organ with MIDI performance recorder, often found on non-mechanical action instruments. This gives you an analog source with absolutely consistent performances. Unless testing would take more than several hours, you can reasonable expect tuning to be similarly consistent.

Whenever I need to run comparison tests I go to a nearby church with an excellent large instrument. The only missing ingredient is percussive transients. Too bad this is a church and not a theater!

Many of us have organist friends/clients-- ask them if they might record some varied pieces for such use. It also gives you the opportunity to get nostalgic, as these MIDI beasts use floppies!

Rich
Logged
Sonare Recordings
www.sonarerecordings.com
Pages: 1 ... 6 7 [8]   Go Up