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[Tim Halligan]

OK.

Here's the sequence of events from soup to nuts...for a small film/tv show.

1. Aquisition - recording the sound in the field.

2. Sync rushes - If the programme was actually shot on film, the pics and the location sound are joined together...usually by the edit assistant.

3 - 15. Edit the pics - this is where the pictures and sound are, like, edited togoether to tell the story the director wants to tell. This is a process of incremental refinement.

16. Picture Lock - This is like it says...the locked final picture edit...though it may have some holes for VFX/graphics. Thes aren't the finished pics, but nothing will move rom this point on...

17. OMF export - Ooh look...sound stuff. The edit suite exports an OMF of the locked edit, usually along with the guide pics for the sound department to start work.

18. Dialogue editing - smoothing out the rough edits from the pic editor. Deciding which if any lines need ADR for technical reasons. Note that some may be required for story reasons.

19. Sound design - can of worms. Could be simple...could be a nightmare, particularly on VFX intensive shows. Constant picture updates are helpful in this case.

20. Final mix - *ahem* does this one really require explanation...

21. Mix revisions - changes requested by director/producer/anyone with a financial stake in this masterpiece... then create the M&E, and stems if applicable.

22. Layback/restripe - where the final mix is married to the final graded pics.

23. Tech check - where the release version is checked to make sure the vision and audio are within spec, and that all elements of the audio are in sync with the pics, and that all elements of the main mix - except dialogue (obviously) - are in the M&E.

24. Distribution/delivery - assuming the show passed tech check, the video suite then creates the dubbing master, and the physical tapes are dubbed and dispatched.

25. Post wrap party - drinking heavily on the producer's dime...


Cheers,
Tim

[Etch-A-Sketch]

trebor_zaid wrote on Tue, 05 September 2006 13:32

Oh I apologize, we are not using "recording thingies" we are using "tracking doohickies". Big difference! But your advice below does (eer...I mean above), does lead me to my next question and again thank you all of this advice. AGH, so much What am I looking for in POST? As far as EQ'ing, compressing (if needed), panning, just general mixing. What am I looking at? Do "I" need to do anything or does the editor do it in a small project like this. Like will I get a copy of the entire project to edit the sound then I pass it on to the film editor and he does his thing? thanks again, and if I may say, pick up one of those tracking doohickies......you will not be dissappointed! BWAHAHAHA! r

As the production mixer... you probably won't touch the movie after you've finished recording the production sound and turned it in to be sync'd with all the film that has been shot.  There's really no editing that you do yourself (unless you are also going to switch hats and become the sound editor later on).

As Tim pointed out, the sound editors don't get the OMF files (the audio) until after the video editor has cut the film.  On an indie film the sound editors won't get the OMF until the picture is locked, meaning no more revisions to the video will be made.  But on bigger budget movies with very demanding (and short) deadlines, the editors will get rough cuts of the reels and start the editing process... then with each new revision of the film, the editors have to conform what they did previously to the new cuts.  Then they make a temp dub (temp mix) of the movie for the director to watch... then the director makes more changes... and then the video editor makes those changes...then the sound editors conform their sessions to the new video edits...make a new temp dub, and then do it all over again! lol  


In post, LEAVE EVERYTHING to the Re-Recording Mixer (mixing engineer).  And if you end up being the sound editor, don't try and "help" the mixer out by doing audiosuite GAIN adjustments and putting in you're own automation.  99% of the time this just makes more work for the mixer (having to undo everything you've done so he/she can then do it themselves the way they want it).  The only types of processing you should be doing on the dialogue are things like noise removal, time compression/expansion and reverse.

The other thing to realize is that, these one or two tracks of production sound that you turn in are just a small (but very important) piece of the puzzle.   When the project comes to the dub stage for final mix, it will be anywhere from 20 to maybe 60~70 tracks... but could be even more since most indie's never do any pre-dubs.  The last Indie short I worked on had around 35 tracks of audio.  The last Indie Feature I worked on had about 60 tracks.  The reason I am mentioning this is because, if you start adding your own automation and plugins in post, when looking across 40~60 tracks, it starts to become very time consuming to adjust the automation and plugins to where the mixer wants it.  Most of the time, if you did add any of that stuff, the assistant at the dub stage will delete it all when you hand over the protools files.

[thedoc]

FWIW, there is a ton of really good info coming from Tim and Derek and others....hmmmm, sounds like a folk duo.

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Simon and Garfunkel WATCH OUT! lol

[trebor_zaid]

Again   ,....much advice and I give many, many thanks. There is a key scene in the film involving a church, a 150 person congregation and a 4 piece band/choral group.

If there is any scene, the director/producer told me needs to really, really hit sound wise, it's that church scene. Any advice on tracking that?

Again, thanks for all the advice, I am printing all of this out and trying to really go into this project as knowledgeable as possible so I can be a help, not a hindurance. THANKS!!!!!!
r

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Well since I usually am the person that deals with the audio afterward, not during the shooting, I'm not sure if I have any great advice for the church scene.

A couple things that would be no brainers and hopefully the director already does... like the choir should not be singing while there is dialogue going on, even if they are supposed to be singing while the main characters are talking.  People in the congregation should try to be as quiet as possible while shooting the main characters.  stuff like that...

One thing that might help if you have any wide angle or distance shots is a boom and a Lav.  if you have a distant camera setup and the director, in editing, loves the way the main character happened to say his/her lines during those distance shots, the voice is going to go from very ambient to very direct on the close up shots.  having a Lav would help keep consistency inside the church since the church could potentially be very reverberant especially if you have to position the boom mic really far away from the actors to keep it out of the picture (using a shotgun mic instead of a cardioid or hyper/super cardioid on the boom would also help).

Again... room tone tracks would be nice if you can take a couple... Doing a couple of walla tracks of the congregation would be killer if there are any spots where everyone in the church is supposed to be talking amongst themselves.  During some down time try to get everyone in the congregation to just talk amongst themselves... or just let the tape roll for a few minutes while changing camera setups or something (walla tracks are like background ADR.  Just people chatting and conversing but no specific words or phrases pop out, it's just all mumbling.  In the old days you used to get that effect if you had a couple people literally say "Walla, walla, walla" over and over again and then do multiple passes of it...hence the name, "Walla Tracks").  If there are any choir only shots or panning shots of the choir, try recording them singing the whole song (time permitting), possibly as a wild track if the director doesn't want to film them singing for very long.

I guess it really depends on what the director wants to do.  Just use your instincts and imagination once you find out what is exactly going on in the scene.

[Tim Halligan]

Right.

What Derek said....with some "variations on a theme" as it were.

Basically, what it comes down to is: if the director is clueless about shooting these kinds of scenes....then you're fucked.

Kill yourself now...or better yet - kill the director. They're a dime a dozen...and no-one will miss him.

I can see this type of scene in my head...and it looks like the Blues Brothers...

In the ideal world, the band/choir performance will be pre-recorded and played back on set. The band/choir mime to this. This is the only way to get consistency of performance from shot to shot, and therefore the only way that the show will cut together with any degree of simplicity. Make sure that the playback gets printed to tape/Dat at the same time. The director needs to shoot the shit out of the band/choir dealie...ie get more shots/angles than he thinks he needs. Don't forget to record at least 1 complete pass of the track - this usually accompanies the master wideshot. Also, have a mic going with the camera on the close-up shots, so you can just grab a snare hit, or a vocal sound to reinforce the playback track when it comes to the final mix...y'know - that little bit of reality...

Once you've dealt with the band, the shoot the cast delivering their lines. This might involve the band/choir or the congregation being in shot. They need to be miming silently so the cast can deliver the nuanced performance that the director wants. Make sure the congregation is silent too.

Any extraneous noise over this = ADR. ADR IMHO never quite captures the exact same performance...usually due to the passage of time from production to post-production.

Once the stars are done, do the crowd. Make specific recordings of any "group reactions" required - astonished gasps, cheers, boos, laughter, applause etc - in that room. This is so important, because the CD sound effects never sound exactly like "your" room... Then get the walla stuff. If you've got the gear and the time, get mono and stereo recordings of all the crowd stuff...It'll give you more options in post, and help better achieve that sense of reality within the film. If you don't have the time/gear to get both mono and stereo, then get MONO. It'll help with the focus of the sound track

Cheers,
Tim

[Etch-A-Sketch]

Great advice Tim!  Very well put!  

[Tim Halligan]

Thanks.

We've just finished post on a 26 part kids drama. and the last episode was a similar scenario to Trebor's church setup...but I think our show was 5 x 16mm cameras for two days shooting....so miming to playback was the only way it could work.


Cheers,
Tim

[thedoc]

I worked on a musical many (MANY) years ago where the playback machine was set up incorrectly and DRIFTED whle they shot the picture.....

They ended up cutting the picture frame by frame to match....

[Tim Halligan]

thedoc wrote on Mon, 11 September 2006 01:56

I worked on a musical many (MANY) years ago where the playback machine was set up incorrectly and DRIFTED whle they shot the picture..... They ended up cutting the picture frame by frame to match....

Ouch!





Cheers,
Tim

[Tim Halligan]

Bump!

Trebor, enquiring minds want to know how this worked out for you...


Happy New Year.


Cheers,
Tim