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Author Topic: Telefunken EQ's.  (Read 12276 times)

mumbles

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Telefunken EQ's.
« on: January 22, 2005, 07:09:16 pm »

I've come across some w395a's and Seimens w295's.  I noticed that the "presence" is a boost only, which is also the same on some EMI stuff, and also the Chandler unit.
There really isn't much info on these (in particular, the w395a) and I was just wondering about them.  Mostly a flavor thing?

Seamus
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Seamus
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Oliver Archut

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2005, 01:41:57 pm »

Hello Seamus,

the entire german (as well used at EMI and Decca/Teldec) EQs were all optimized for tone/frequency enhancement and not distortion as nearly everybody uses an EQ today.

Very selective designed and efficient, if you know how to used them, with your other equipment; with a minimalistic phasing problem.

There are different versions, made by several german companies all with reference to the IRT "Braunbuch" specification derived from the prewar german "Tontraeger Standard" = "Sound recording standard" developed for tape and records... After the war just minor modification regarding dynamic, frequency response were added.

The entire idea was to develop an tone alternating module, with a minimum of phase angle distortion, an entiere different concepet than today where everybody is so affraid of phase shift.
It is easy to deal with phase shift, than an distorted or offset phase angle is the basic line.  Still hard to quantify there is not to much (unbiased) published info, so very difficult to put into perspective.

The entire german EQs, with some minor exceptions (like the ELA 150 stereo EQ) were based around LC filter, better described as resonance filter.  Most famous Resonance EQs are the "Pulse Technologies" ones, or as every body knows them PulTech....
Basic concept is, use three different passive filters (for three different center frequencies), link them and buffer them via a tube or in the 295/395 case a transistor pre amp.
The three filters are set up around a center frequency, in most cased 60 Hz, 10kHz plus a mid/presence boost, so that all ranges overlay around 1kHz. Sounds more complex than it is and the end result sounds very pleasant.

There is an entire range you might want to try out, the passive Eckmiller, Danner and Klangfilm EQs, the buffered tube boxes and the later transistorized ones,
Siemens made
C72157-A24-A1 better known as W295a/b/c
C72157-A26-A1 or W294 the low pass filter
C72157-A24-A11 or W293 the high pass filter

TAB made (also sold as relabeled Telefunken)
same specs only with W3xx number. Some minor variations in used transistors, x-formers, etc.

Telefunken made several RC filter active and passive...

The later BFE or filtek, ANT (after Daimler closed Telefunkens Ela division, ANT was formed to service and supply replacement parts) are all op amp controlled, feedback EQs, that share nothing aside the designation, sound is very sterile.

If you want to buy and use the historic units, please be aware that no replacement switches are available (they break very easy) and the units rely heavily on the original Siemens/TFK and Valvo transistor for there great sound. There is no equivalent that works satisfactory...

Best regards,

Oliver

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Oliver Archut
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RMoore

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2005, 03:19:13 am »

I have some 295 EQ's (a & b models) which I use & they sound very nice, very 'musical'..
Quite 'Tubelike'..
The bottom end is very pleasing, and the highs adds sizzle..the presence or mids is also nice too..
The sound is , not surprisingly, similar in the low & high to the Eckmiller passive W86 units..
Its not modern  'surgical' EQ with the 295- its broader sounding..
Theres nothing harsh with these EQS so thats probably the phasing thing Oliver mentions..
Very nice units & a good deal for the $ IMO  if you can get them  for non-crazy prices..
They need 24v dc power ..
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RMoore

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2005, 07:46:59 pm »

BTW the 295 eqs have boost only in the  mids / 'presence' but
295b eqs have both cut and boost (8db)..
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echorec

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2005, 08:45:02 pm »

I use the W295b EQs a lot. Great for vox, ac guit, drum O/H etc
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mumbles

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2005, 12:28:41 pm »

Thanks a lot for your help, guys.

Seamus
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Seamus
Upstate, NY

mumbles

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2005, 04:14:28 pm »

So what would the difference, exactly, be between the TAB 395's and the Telefunken 395's??
They look the same... but inside??

Seamus
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Seamus
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echorec

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2005, 05:50:45 pm »

Hi Seamus,

I bet they are identical inside too.
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Oliver Archut

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2005, 07:38:35 pm »

All Telefunken modules sold under the V3xx designation were specially labeled units made by the historic TAB company, some of them had just a TS engraving, or none at all.

But there also several different version made by TAB with the same designation....

Best regards,

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Oliver Archut
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robot gigante

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2006, 12:12:57 am »

Oliver Archut wrote on Sun, 23 January 2005 13:41

Hello Seamus,

the entire german (as well used at EMI and Decca/Teldec) EQs were all optimized for tone/frequency enhancement and not distortion as nearly everybody uses an EQ today.

Very selective designed and efficient, if you know how to used them, with your other equipment; with a minimalistic phasing problem.

There are different versions, made by several german companies all with reference to the IRT "Braunbuch" specification derived from the prewar german "Tontraeger Standard" = "Sound recording standard" developed for tape and records... After the war just minor modification regarding dynamic, frequency response were added.

The entire idea was to develop an tone alternating module, with a minimum of phase angle distortion, an entiere different concepet than today where everybody is so affraid of phase shift.
It is easy to deal with phase shift, than an distorted or offset phase angle is the basic line.  Still hard to quantify there is not to much (unbiased) published info, so very difficult to put into perspective.

The entire german EQs, with some minor exceptions (like the ELA 150 stereo EQ) were based around LC filter, better described as resonance filter.  Most famous Resonance EQs are the "Pulse Technologies" ones, or as every body knows them PulTech....
Basic concept is, use three different passive filters (for three different center frequencies), link them and buffer them via a tube or in the 295/395 case a transistor pre amp.
The three filters are set up around a center frequency, in most cased 60 Hz, 10kHz plus a mid/presence boost, so that all ranges overlay around 1kHz. Sounds more complex than it is and the end result sounds very pleasant.

There is an entire range you might want to try out, the passive Eckmiller, Danner and Klangfilm EQs, the buffered tube boxes and the later transistorized ones,
Siemens made
C72157-A24-A1 better known as W295a/b/c
C72157-A26-A1 or W294 the low pass filter
C72157-A24-A11 or W293 the high pass filter

TAB made (also sold as relabeled Telefunken)
same specs only with W3xx number. Some minor variations in used transistors, x-formers, etc.

Telefunken made several RC filter active and passive...

The later BFE or filtek, ANT (after Daimler closed Telefunkens Ela division, ANT was formed to service and supply replacement parts) are all op amp controlled, feedback EQs, that share nothing aside the designation, sound is very sterile.

If you want to buy and use the historic units, please be aware that no replacement switches are available (they break very easy) and the units rely heavily on the original Siemens/TFK and Valvo transistor for there great sound. There is no equivalent that works satisfactory...

Best regards,

Oliver





That's very interesting information.

Would you say that the passive Eckmiller, Danner and Klangfilm designs are at the same level of quality as the others?  Are there going to be any issues we should know about when hooking them up to modern equipment?  I've used a V78m for gain makeup with Eckmillers with no problems that I could hear, but it would be nice to know if there's anything I'm overlooking.

thanks!

-Sam
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mumbles

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2006, 08:18:12 am »

Just wanted to update the original post I made the last time Oliver was around.

We ended up buying 4 Siemens W295b's for our console.
We've been using them for about a year, now.
We love them.

Thanks, everyone.
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Seamus
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Oliver Archut

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2006, 12:54:20 pm »

Hello Sam,

from a technical point of view both the passive as well as the active are the same, resonance circuits. For my taste the Eckmiller and Klangfilm are smooth as can be, with a real metal inductor vs. the ferrite inductor of the later transistors.

If you can find the Danner, Eckmiller and the Klangfilm, just buy them... Otherwise the transistor units are the next best thing.

Dealing with Eckmillers and a V78M you might want to try several versions how to patch them, Mic, V78, Eckmiller or Mic, Eckmiller and than V78.... If you run the V78 before them hit the EQs with as much signal as possible can, you get secondary resonances that sometimes sound really cool, there is no way to hurt them but you might need an additional pad or better an limiter after the Eckmillers otherwise you might end up with tons of spikes...

Best regards,

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Oliver Archut
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robot gigante

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Re: Telefunken EQ's.
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2006, 07:41:38 pm »

Great information, thank you!

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