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[Daniel_Dettwiler]

Hi there

I am thinking about getting an Pacific Microsonics Model 1. Has anyone compared this unit to Lavrie Gold, EMM-Labs or other Units? Also how does it compared to the Model 2? Is it the same exept for the lower sampling rate? I am mainly interessted in the DA part of the unit, as I alreadey have EMM AD's.

Thanks for any input

Daniel
www.ideeundklang.com

[mastermind]

I used to have a PM model One.. now I have the Lavry Blues...... don't miss the PM box one bit !!!!

t

[bblackwood]

IIRC, the PM stuff was discontinued because the parts needed to build them were no longer available - do you really want to invest in something that cannot be supported at any cost?

Sound-wise, I've never heard anything but great things regarding PM's converters...

[bl]

Not totally true,

Euphonix handles all of the repairs and they have gads of parts (according to Dave Peck who was originally at Pacific Microsonics), it's just pricey to repair them.  

In my opinion the Model 1 is still a great box (we have two) and is way more than just a converter.  I did a dac shootout here a few years back between the PM-Model I, Lavrey Gold (at that time DB Tech), Lavry Blue, Prism Dream DA-8, and Apogee 8000.  The two faves were the PM and the Lavry Gold.  

I have a friend who designs very high-end ($$$) audiophile analog gear and analog circuits for converters.  He occassionally comes over to listen to various devices and the PM has always hung in there as an equal or bested some pretty great stuff.

I like the PM for it's multitude of dithers, it's upsampling and downsampling capabilities, the ability to adjust output gain either analog or digitally, and it's ridiculously quiet s/n and thd levels.  The cascade (digital insert) mode is very convenient.

I've seen model I's on ebay for $3500 - $4500 and consider this a good buy if you have the ability to swallow an occassional $800 repair bill.  

My 2 cents.

Regards,

Brent Lambert
The Kitchen Mastering

[Bob Olhsson]

The PM converters were taken out of production so that they could support the ones in the field.

This is one responsible manufacturer unlike too many I could name...

[mastermind]

The PM Model 1 converters are nice.... but imo the Lavry Blues hold their own against it, are far more reliable, and do 96k.....

The Lavry Golds beat up the PM I and it runs home crying..... my humble opinion....

t

[Daniel_Dettwiler]

Thanks for the replies guys.

2 Answears saying that they liked the Lavrie Blue better than the PM, that's informative for me, because I have tested the Blue against EMM and liked EMM better. The Problem, at least in Switzerland ist, that you never get all of the highend Converters for a shoot-out.

As for the service, I also have heard that Euphonix can do service for the PM for at least the next years.

Thx
Daniel

[bblackwood]

Bob Olhsson wrote on Wed, 23 August 2006 23:53

The PM converters were taken out of production so that they could support the ones in the field. This is one responsible manufacturer unlike too many I could name...

Ahh, good to know. And yes, that reflects very well on Euphonix!

[bblackwood]

bl wrote on Wed, 23 August 2006 23:31

In my opinion the Model 1 is still a great box (we have two) and is way more than just a converter.  I did a dac shootout here a few years back between the PM-Model I, Lavrey Gold (at that time DB Tech), Lavry Blue, Prism Dream DA-8, and Apogee 8000.  The two faves were the PM and the Lavry Gold.   I have a friend who designs very high-end ($$$) audiophile analog gear and analog circuits for converters.  He occassionally comes over to listen to various devices and the PM has always hung in there as an equal or bested some pretty great stuff. I like the PM for it's multitude of dithers, it's upsampling and downsampling capabilities, the ability to adjust output gain either analog or digitally, and it's ridiculously quiet s/n and thd levels.  The cascade (digital insert) mode is very convenient. I've seen model I's on ebay for $3500 - $4500 and consider this a good buy if you have the ability to swallow an occassional $800 repair bill.

Thanks, Brent. Any experience with the Model II?

[Bob Olhsson]

Daniel_Dettwiler wrote on Thu, 24 August 2006 05:20

2 Answears saying that they liked the Lavrie Blue better than the PM, that's informative for me, because I have tested the Blue against EMM and liked EMM better.

Two answers but from the same person!

I know several people holding the opposite opinion between Lavry Gold and PM. I haven't compared the two directly but the one time I was listening to a Lavry Gold A to D, I preferred a Weiss!

There are a number of facilities that use EMM, PM converters and Lavry Golds side by side depending on the desired effect.

[Daniel_Dettwiler]

Quote:

Two answers but from the same person! I know several people holding the opposite opinion between Lavry Gold and PM. I haven't compared the two directly but the one time I was listening to a Lavry Gold A to D, I preferred a Weiss! There are a number of facilities that use EMM, PM converters and Lavry Golds side by side depending on the desired effect.

...indeed, from the same person, haven't seen that:-=

I don't know the Weiss AD, but the Weiss DA I am very familar, and I prefere a EMM DA hands down for my taste and using. So probably I just get an EMM DA, that could not be wrong, and it is 8 Channal, which has some advantages for me as well.

Bob, if you know some Mastering Engineers, that have Listening Experiance to The EMM and Lavrie Gold (and maybe Pcific), and you think that I might contact them, please drop me a pm, I would apriciate

Thanks
Daniel

[Mark Donahue]

Daniel_Dettwiler wrote on Thu, 24 August 2006 11:29

Quote: Two answers but from the same person! I know several people holding the opposite opinion between Lavry Gold and PM. I haven't compared the two directly but the one time I was listening to a Lavry Gold A to D, I preferred a Weiss! There are a number of facilities that use EMM, PM converters and Lavry Golds side by side depending on the desired effect. ...indeed, from the same person, haven't seen that:-= I don't know the Weiss AD, but the Weiss DA I am very familar, and I prefere a EMM DA hands down for my taste and using. So probably I just get an EMM DA, that could not be wrong, and it is 8 Channal, which has some advantages for me as well. Bob, if you know some Mastering Engineers, that have Listening Experiance to The EMM and Lavrie Gold (and maybe Pcific), and you think that I might contact them, please drop me a pm, I would apriciate Thanks Daniel

Daniel,
I have in my room a Model 1, DCS904/954 and Meitner ADC/DAC8 mk IV. Each of these converters have their own color and are completely program dependant.
Here is my take on things. The PM is usually my first choice. It doesn't measure as well as the Meitner, but to my ear it is usually the first choice. The Meitner is super clean and some may say a little clinical, great for some things, not for others.
I must admit that the DCS is usually the last choice. (Yea, I'm spoiled....)
All of these converters are reference quality, but the Model 1 does sooo many more things. Besides the stuff listed above it also is one of the best program limiters in existence. Just try and pry it from my cold dead hands! (Unless you intend to leave a model 2 in its place...)
As always YMMV.
-mark

[Daniel_Dettwiler]

Quote:

Daniel, I have in my room a Model 1, DCS904/954 and Meitner ADC/DAC8 mk IV. Each of these converters have their own color and are completely program dependant. Here is my take on things. The PM is usually my first choice. It doesn't measure as well as the Meitner, but to my ear it is usually the first choice. The Meitner is super clean and some may say a little clinical, great for some things, not for others. I must admit that the DCS is usually the last choice. (Yea, I'm spoiled....) All of these converters are reference quality, but the Model 1 does sooo many more things. Besides the stuff listed above it also is one of the best program limiters in existence. Just try and pry it from my cold dead hands! (Unless you intend to leave a model 2 in its place...) As always YMMV. -mark

Hy Mark

Thanks very much, that was very informative and helpful for me. My main Projects are acoustic Music, mostly Jazz. My AD DA Combination must therefore deliver the best possible dimension and depth of field infrormation. That's wy I prefered the Meitner both AD and DA to every thing I have listend so far. That includes Prism, Weiss and Lavrie Blue and DCS. I too felt that they might have its stengh, but for what I need the depth of field information is everything. You say that the Meintner is more clean. Do you feel it will translate the depth of field information more acourate than a PM mod 1?  

Thx
Daniel
PS: I can totaly understand that you usually pick the meitner before the DCS. (Spoiled as I am too...)

[David Glasser]

Daniel_Dettwiler wrote on Thu, 24 August 2006 18:15

Quote: Daniel, I have in my room a Model 1, DCS904/954 and Meitner ADC/DAC8 mk IV. Each of these converters have their own color and are completely program dependant. Here is my take on things. The PM is usually my first choice. It doesn't measure as well as the Meitner, but to my ear it is usually the first choice. The Meitner is super clean and some may say a little clinical, great for some things, not for others. I must admit that the DCS is usually the last choice. (Yea, I'm spoiled....) All of these converters are reference quality, but the Model 1 does sooo many more things. Besides the stuff listed above it also is one of the best program limiters in existence. Just try and pry it from my cold dead hands! (Unless you intend to leave a model 2 in its place...) As always YMMV. -mark Hy Mark Thanks very much, that was very informative and helpful for me. My main Projects are acoustic Music, mostly Jazz. My AD DA Combination must therefore deliver the best possible dimension and depth of field infrormation. That's wy I prefered the Meitner both AD and DA to every thing I have listend so far. That includes Prism, Weiss and Lavrie Blue and DCS. I too felt that they might have its stengh, but for what I need the depth of field information is everything. You say that the Meintner is more clean. Do you feel it will translate the depth of field information more acourate than a PM mod 1?   Thx Daniel PS: I can totaly understand that you usually pick the meitner before the DCS. (Spoiled as I am too...)

Daniel,

I'm a bit late to this discussion, but I also have a Pacific Microsonics Model 2 and an EMM DAC 8 (an earlier model), as well as a Prism ADA-8.

Re: the differences between the Model 1 & Model 2 - the Model 2 does 48k and 4x sampling rates; it also does single wire AES at 88.2/96k - the Model 1 operates in dual wire mode. The Model 2 clocking is more flexible - it can operate as the clock master in D-D modes. You can also clock the D/A from the A/D.

re: sound - I concur with Mark. The Model 2 is usually my preferrence for D/A & A/D. The Meitner, to my ears, does not resolve as much detail in PCM mode as the Model 2. I use HDCD encoding for most projects; it's still the best dithering scheme that I've tried. (If I could get my hands on 2 more Model 2s for surround...). The Prism ADA-8 and the newer ADA-8XR, though is the best value out there for high-end converters. With the proper cards, it does DSD conversion, PCM>DSD>PCM, synchronous SRC, and more, and it sounds great.

[bl]

Quote:

Thanks, Brent. Any experience with the Model II?

Hey Brad,

No, I've been trolling for one for a couple of years.  I was real sorry that I didn't upgrade when they offered it at the time (there was a long turnaround and a huge waiting list).  

I saw one up for sale two years ago but it wasn't the right time for me to buy (it was $10k).

There is a guy in Studio City, CA who has been gobbling them up for his rental company.  He rents them to film mixers and has racks of them that he gets $400/day each!  And, they are popular still.