Topic: Saturn Sound's VF14 Replacement Tube- Anybody Used It? (Read 25431 times)

J.J. Blair · « **on:** July 21, 2006, 09:08:29 PM »

I found this very interesting and don't recall any discussions in here about it. Mind you, it's a replacement and not a recreation.

http://www.saturn-sound.com/products/replacement%20valve.htm

Does anybody know the guys at Saturn or have any experience with them?

I'm reading some of their information they've written, like the differences between the C12 and C24, and their opinions are well reflected enough that I'm curious to hear what they have come up with. I wonder if their replacement tubes sound better than some people's replacement capsules, for instance.

ricknroll · « **Reply #1 on:** July 23, 2006, 06:19:10 PM »

J.J. Blair wrote on Fri, 21 July 2006 18:08

Does anybody know the guys at Saturn or have any experience with them?

My limited experience: on two different occasions I tried to buy mics from them, but when it came time for me to actually pay for the stuff, Ashley did not follow through (i.e., he stopped responding to my emails). I'm not sure what happened...we only exchanged a few emails, so it's not like he had any reason to think I was just stringing him along.

Rick Hedges

Markus Sauschlager · « **Reply #2 on:** July 28, 2006, 04:36:51 PM »

My experience is similar: A while ago I emailed Ashley because I wanted to buy a C28A from him. Never even got an answer! Not a big problem for me since I already own two of those mics and only wanted the extra one as spare mic, but I wonder if he really wants to sell anything...

Barry Hufker · « **Reply #3 on:** July 28, 2006, 07:56:13 PM »

I asked a question of him and got a prompt reply. He seemed nice.
He might be eccentric. Name someone in audio who isn't.

Barry

bukarin · « **Reply #4 on:** August 13, 2006, 02:13:24 PM »

For what its worth Ashley has worked on a bunch of AKG C28s for us and they have all come back sounding much better. In all cases he's been through the power supplies, recapped them and replaced incorrect resistors etc.
The U47 apparently had some interesting component choices before he changed them (it sounded terrible before although Neumann had checked it over and replaced the M7 capsule fairly recently!)

I also spoke to him on the phone the other day and he seemed really helpful and knowledgeable. We haven't had any communication problems with Ashley and all the mics have been turned round in good time. He's definitely worth talking too and as far as I'm aware there is nobody else in the UK working on microphones to this level independently (I also spoke to a tech when I was at Abbey Road recently who said they had outsourced some specialist work to him; they have a mic specialist in residence so I guess they must hold him in some regard).

Hope this is useful, I'll let you know what I think of the modded mic when I hear it, altough it'll be hard to give much of an objective opinion about the valve knowing all the rest of the work he has done.

Norm McCleary · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2008, 08:38:31 AM »

I have two of the Saturn 'RV-14m U47 replacement tubes which came with a bulk deal. They are sh.t and sound like sh.t.

One we cut up to check it out, though we tested both before doing so to see if they could perform anything like a VF14. With the two we have, both are useless.

Here is a photo of one of the two Saturn's 'RV-14m' , cut open. What you can't see is that the tube is a GE 407a!

Regards, Norm McCleary

index.php/fa/8444/0/

Saturn Sound · « **Reply #6 on:** April 17, 2008, 02:51:58 AM »

I have only recently visited this excellent site, 16/04/08, to find a somewhat "Slanderous" message with respect to one of my products, namely that of the RV-14m valve (tube). I am totally aware of the "Sender" of the message, and find it difficult to believe that another manufacturer would take such lengths to "Discredit" a competitor's product in such manner.

Having sold many of these valves (tubes), I would like to point out the amount of positive feedback that I have received from many of my clients.
www.saturn-sound.com\products\replacement valve.htm to read customer feedback

Like any product, the occasional component can and will fail e.g. One RV-14m failed after only a few hours use, due to an open circuit heater (filament). A very rare fault indeed. However, this is the only reported problem that I am aware of and I have received no other negative feedback.

I am a strong believer in negative feedback from clients, as this leads to positive changes in design etc.

There is no secret as to what is inside the case of the RV-14m. Pictures on my web-site clearly show the inside of the RV-14m at various stages of design and construction:
www.saturn-sound.com\products\rv-14m_design_and_construction .htm.

The valve (tube) used in the RV-14m, might cosmetically appear very similar from the outside as a GE 407a, just like many other valves (tubes).
There is very little space to fit any other sized valve (tube) within the space of a VF14. Therefore the size of the glass envelope will be (small) out of necessity rather than design.
So to put the record straight

compasspnt · « **Reply #7 on:** April 17, 2008, 08:49:08 AM »

Hi Ashley.

Thanks for posting.

I think you have incorrectly listed your website URL's however.

Looks like you put back slashes when it perhaps should be forwards.

Here is where I found the valve const page:

http://www.saturn-sound.com/products/rv-14m_design_and_const ruction.htm

BTW, we all now fully understand that valves are tubes.

Thanks!

Oliver Archut · « **Reply #8 on:** April 17, 2008, 09:35:35 AM »

Hello Ashley,

Over the years there were several so called direct replacements for the VF14 that all claimed to be identical, most build upon the Western Electric 40x series, either the 20/40 V version of the 2C51 (407) or the 50mA/20V version of the EF95 (408).

Depending on the maker (WE, NE, GE, RCA, Ericson, Philips) some of them sound O.K. but have nothing to do with an VF14. Some other tubes that are favored, were the 5904 to 5908 group of tubes, but none of the above is really a direct replacement.

Passing signal does not mean it sounds good and there are a lot of people whom I meet that love the sound of the 5905, mostly in conjunction with a Thiersch reskin.

If one of the guys posting here really uses this forum to try to discredit you, I think Klaus would take care of that.

Regarding your claim of a custom made tube, I do understand to keep the real designation under wraps, in case it would sound the same as an VF14, but all tubes, whether of western or eastern origin are quite well documented and none has an ML designation. The Brits used CV for custom valves, the Americans STR; so what is up with your 'ML'? Are those ones custom made for you?

ssltech · « **Reply #9 on:** April 17, 2008, 12:30:24 PM »

If Betnorm/ Norm Mc Cleary is a competing manufacturer, that should probably be stated.
I have asked Norm to chime in! K.H.

J.J. Blair · « **Reply #10 on:** April 18, 2008, 02:48:48 AM »

And here's the case for putting your name in your profile: I thought it was my friend Norm in LA, who also bought one of those fake VF14s. Not Norm McCleary. My bad.

mullard · « **Reply #11 on:** April 18, 2008, 04:32:50 AM »

Sounds like fake, but if Saturn proves that their VF-14 replacement tube delivers all what is usually associated with original VF-14 it would be quite a news.
So far, I'm far from being convinced.

Norm McCleary · « **Reply #12 on:** April 18, 2008, 05:25:24 AM »

My name is Norm Mccleary I live in Bunbury, Western Australia.

My son is a professional musician and I enjoy the production side of the industry. I have built/am building one of the best and most well equiped private studios in Perth Australia. I am neither attached or affiliated to anyone in the music industry except my son.

I have given a real and knowledgeable description of this product from personal use and commissioned testing to the best of my own ability. I am willing to run further tests if the tubes are available, however I have tested two and in a sonic sense, both are far from what they claim to emulate. Norm

rodabod · « **Reply #13 on:** April 18, 2008, 08:27:52 AM »

Thanks for replying, Norm.

Can you tell us what you meant about receiving the item in a "bulk deal"? That just sounded a little strange.

Also, people here tend to try to describe why something sounds better or worse rather than just stating that it doesn't sound as good as it should, etc. Is it sonically lacking in any particular area in your opinion?

I think it would be nice if someone reputable could review one of these or possibly provide A/B samples to let us hear ourselves.

Oliver Archut · « **Reply #14 on:** April 18, 2008, 09:00:18 AM »

A good beginning it to post the data sheet of the tube Ashley uses, does not tell anything about the sonic performance (like EF14 is identical in technical specs, but sounds different) but shows us at least if the technical specs are identical.

Regards,
index.php/fa/8552/0/

Norm McCleary · « **Reply #15 on:** April 18, 2008, 12:07:17 PM »

Approximately 12 months ago I purchased two U47 from an old Dutch recording studio. One was stated as working the other for parts. Surprise, surprise. When I opened the box not only the mics and accessories as described but an extra 10 VF14 tubes described as noisy or dead; among them were also a couple of the SaturnSound VF14 replacements.
These were in the mics. I had Gunter (Wagner) test all the tubes and he was able to rehabilatate 3 of the Tele tubes. One of the U47 was in good order but sounded quite harsh, this was with the replacement tube. We swapped it out for an original and
everything got better. The U47 for parts had a stuffed diaphram which I had re-skinned and then fitted another of the Tele tubes and now we had two very nice mics working to full specs.

For the fun of it we decided to cut up one of the replacement tubes, to see what was under the bonnet. Thats the story of the "Bulk Buy".
Regards Norm

studiochap · « **Reply #16 on:** May 17, 2008, 09:05:15 PM »

I have had experience of dealing with both Ashley Styles and Norm McCleary.

Many years ago I sent Ashley Styles an AKG capsule from an ELAM 251 microphone to be reconditioned with

Phil Mayor · « **Reply #17 on:** May 31, 2008, 04:47:24 PM »

I have tried on many occasions to do business with Saturn sound..they simply never reply. Actually I did get one call through to Ashley after weeks of trying. He said he would sort out my problem and send the part. He never did.

I wanted to find out about his C12VR mods. I tried again recently with a question and a request to buy something he was advertising. I left lots of emails, lots of answer phone messages...nothing. Never replied. I don't mean to upset anyone just telling you the facts.

Shame though, his page is interesting and he seems like a nice guy during the one time I spoke to him. I doubt I could do business with him even though I'd like to. Imagine sending your priceless mic in and never being able to get hold of him! A shame, really.

Eric H. · « **Reply #18 on:** May 31, 2008, 04:53:44 PM »

Yes, his web page is great. Valuable information is there.

Saturn Sound · « **Reply #19 on:** June 01, 2008, 08:02:01 AM »

Phil Mayor,
Re your reply on Prosoundweb,

From my Records, I have only ever received three e-mails from you, dated 10/01/07, 12/01/07 and 25/02/07, to which I gave you a reply to each, thus dated 11/01/07, 15/01/07 and 26/02/07 !

The last e-mail (26/02/07) stating that the item in question had just been sold, hence why you could not purchase it.

As for "Sorting out the problem" and "Sending a part", then I have no recollection on that. I would only sort out a problem, if the microphone was sent through for working on, and I would only supply a part if an "Order" was placed.

I hold my "Hands-up", I am difficult to contact via the telephone, hence why my site states that e-mail is the preferred method of contact. If I answered the telephone every time I received a call, then I would never do any work.
Plus like everybody else, I do have Holidays. I am not available 365 days a year !!!

As for any work sent in for servicing etc, I always give confirmation of safe arrival etc, for obvious reasons, and send "up-dates" of the progress of a job, as and when required.

Sincerely
Ashley C. Styles

SATURN SOUND Recording Services

Markus Sauschlager · « **Reply #20 on:** June 01, 2008, 04:12:02 PM »

Saturn Sound wrote on Sun, 01 June 2008 14:02

I hold my "Hands-up", I am difficult to contact via the telephone, hence why my site states that e-mail is the preferred method of contact.

I too have tried to contact Saturn Sound via email because I was interested to buy used mics offered on the website. Did that on several occasions, never got a reply!
Well, not a problem as I bought the models I wanted eventually elsewhere, but I think that ignoring inquiries/emails isn't really customer friendly. Kinda proves bad manners.

Anyway, I appreciate the website.

Markus

J.J. Blair · « **Reply #21 on:** June 01, 2008, 06:31:24 PM »

Well, if not bad manners, a bad mail server, perhaps.

Markus Sauschlager · « **Reply #22 on:** June 01, 2008, 07:50:27 PM »

Hmm, yes maybe that's the reason. As it seems that others didn't get any response too, that mail server would be a real business-killer. I sent emails from two different accounts to reduce the chance of being caught by a spam filter.

aludra · « **Reply #23 on:** October 05, 2008, 09:36:35 PM »

Hello,

I run a recording studio here in Nashville for over 25 years.
I have a U47 that is in perfect condition and had an excellent vf-14 tube that was very clean and low noise. But I had concerns about the life of the tube using the u47 on a daily basis....

So I purchased Ashleys replacement and it is FANTASTIC!!!!The only change in sound quality I could detect was a bit LOWER noise and a slight extension of high end...and I mean very slight....

I would put my u47 against any here in Nashville as I have rented all that I could find to compare other tube substitions and Ashleys tube was THE CLOSEST to my original tube PERIOD!

Also Ashley was very helpful and responded quickly to my MANY questions...

Sooooo...not sure why others have had problems, but I felt the need to express my great results with this replacement and I have recorded very difficult vocals using this tube replacement and everytime I have been very happy with the results.

Regards,
Mike Bridges
Germantown Studio, Nashville

Phil Mayor · « **Reply #24 on:** January 13, 2009, 03:28:03 PM »

Hi, has there been any more testing or info on this replacement for the VF-14? I ask as I have been offered an original U47 and U48 recently and one had the Saturn Sound replacement in it. The owner told me that the(one/all?) U47's at Abbey Road are using this Saturn sound replacement.

ALso I wondered how much it would affect the value of a U47/8

Thanks, Phil.

Klaus Heyne · « **Reply #25 on:** January 13, 2009, 03:53:36 PM »

There have been quite a few posts on how a replacement tube (or other substituted part) affects the value of a vintage mic.

The rule of thumb: The value reduction will be about on par with the amount of money it would cost to obtain a perfectly working, cosmetically clean, original part.

If circuit modifications or irreversible cosmetic alterations would need to be made in addition, then deduct quite a bit more.

R/E/P Community

Author Topic: Saturn Sound's VF14 Replacement Tube- Anybody Used It? (Read 25431 times)