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Author Topic: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!  (Read 14533 times)

analog

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The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« on: March 09, 2006, 05:57:02 PM »

Dan, why is it that you can slam the input of the Lavry Gold so far before you hear audible distortion?  Can you hit it harder with the saturation mode?  Do you know if the Sterling guys use the Gold?  How similar is the Blue saturation as the Gold?  

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Chris Garcia
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danlavry

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2006, 07:55:15 PM »

analog wrote on Thu, 09 March 2006 22:57

Dan, why is it that you can slam the input of the Lavry Gold so far before you hear audible distortion?  Can you hit it harder with the saturation mode?  Do you know if the Sterling guys use the Gold?  How similar is the Blue saturation as the Gold?  




Hi,

The digital saturation mode is done after the conversion, it emulates a tape saturation. It makes the music louder, but it works better for some music, not as well for other music.
Both gold and blue have digital sat. The gold has 2 settings, the blue has one setting.

The Blue also has analog saturation The analog is in front of the converter, to help against hitting the input with too much analog level.

The gold front end is much better at "taking abuse", so it does not have an analog soft saturation. Yes, you can slam the gold very hard, and some high end mastering engineers take advantage of it to make the sound louder.

The Sterling guys use Lavry Gold AD's.

Regards
Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com  
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analog

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2006, 08:50:48 PM »

What about the Gold front end is much better?  How much different is the mkIII then the mkII?  Is the db gold a completelty different beast?  Is the clock different in gold then blue?  Do you know if the Sterling guys use the tape saturation post digital chip when doing the rock stuff?  Is the digital sat mode the same on both Lavry Gold and Blue?  Thanks
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Chris Garcia
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jazzius

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2006, 02:41:07 AM »

Man, you're completely obsessed with this Sterling slamming thing!!!

The guys at sterling get loud masters 'cause they work with great mixes..the slamming thing is just a small, minor part of the whole process!

jazzius

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2006, 02:55:45 AM »

danlavry wrote on Fri, 10 March 2006 00:55


The gold front end is much better at "taking abuse", so it does not have an analog soft saturation. Yes, you can slam the gold very hard, and some high end mastering engineers take advantage of it to make the sound louder.

The Sterling guys use Lavry Gold AD's.

Regards
Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com  


Dan, this sounds like a bit of marketing going on here! Very Happy

Was it designed to take this abuse?......is it just an accident?...it must have some technology employed to saturate the signal before it goes splatt!

danlavry

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #5 on: March 10, 2006, 01:45:22 PM »

jazzius wrote on Fri, 10 March 2006 07:55

danlavry wrote on Fri, 10 March 2006 00:55


The gold front end is much better at "taking abuse", so it does not have an analog soft saturation. Yes, you can slam the gold very hard, and some high end mastering engineers take advantage of it to make the sound louder.

The Sterling guys use Lavry Gold AD's.

Regards
Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com  


Dan, this sounds like a bit of marketing going on here! Very Happy

Was it designed to take this abuse?......is it just an accident?...it must have some technology employed to saturate the signal before it goes splatt!



Hey, looking at this forum, about one and a half years long (or so) should be enough to realize that I am NOT using this medium to market. I was asked a straight question, so I answered it.
If I wanted to market, I would be announcing that Grundman is using both gold AD and DA exclusively, that Sony uses Gold 3000S in every room and on, and on and on and on...

To answer your question, my designs are not accidental. They are a result of a lot of hard work over many years.

Regards
Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com
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jazzius

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #6 on: March 10, 2006, 02:53:17 PM »

Ok!

danlavry

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2006, 05:43:24 PM »

This is a technical forum. I have deleted the posts beyond this point, because they were not technical.

Regards
Dan Lavry
http://www.lavryengineering.com
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Revolution

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2006, 10:21:48 PM »

Dan is it by nature that a better quality convertor will take overs better or is it a concious consideration when designing such a product that it may be used in this way, meaning deliberate clipping.

jfrigo

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2006, 12:19:19 AM »

danlavry wrote on Mon, 13 March 2006 14:43

This is a technical forum. I have deleted the posts beyond this point, because they were not technical.

Regards
Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com


Dan,

Here's something to get back on the technical subject. I think the following questions would elicit information that many people are not aware of when talking about hitting a converter hard.

1.) What about the Gold design, or any high quality analog design in general, allows for hotter input signal before audible distress? The op amps? The power supply? Other components? How do these components behave differently from lesser examples?

2.) What is measureably different in what one sees at the output of lesser designs (even ones that are very good in their own right, like the blue) as compared to the better designs? Both clip, and full scale is full scale, so why does one sound better than another? Is it a difference between 2nd and 3rd harmonic levels? Is total distortion measurably less? What accounts for one clipped signal being preferable to another?

I think this kind of nitty gritty technical detail is what's usually missing from the discussion of hot levels, loudness, and distortion. Thank you very much for sharing your perspective on it.
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danlavry

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2006, 01:18:29 PM »

Revolution wrote on Wed, 15 March 2006 03:21

Dan is it by nature that a better quality convertor will take overs better or is it a concious consideration when designing such a product that it may be used in this way, meaning deliberate clipping.


I did not ever intend to encourage people to bang a signal over the converter "legal range", but I of course I needed to assume that some people will do that, and if they do, I should "be there" to help matters as best I can. Doing it right is a rather complicated.

Regards
Dan Lavry
http://www.lavryengineering.com
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driveblind

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2006, 12:39:41 PM »

jfrigo wrote on Tue, 21 March 2006 00:19

danlavry wrote on Mon, 13 March 2006 14:43

This is a technical forum. I have deleted the posts beyond this point, because they were not technical.

Regards
Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com


Dan,

Here's something to get back on the technical subject. I think the following questions would elicit information that many people are not aware of when talking about hitting a converter hard.

1.) What about the Gold design, or any high quality analog design in general, allows for hotter input signal before audible distress? The op amps? The power supply? Other components? How do these components behave differently from lesser examples?

2.) What is measureably different in what one sees at the output of lesser designs (even ones that are very good in their own right, like the blue) as compared to the better designs? Both clip, and full scale is full scale, so why does one sound better than another? Is it a difference between 2nd and 3rd harmonic levels? Is total distortion measurably less? What accounts for one clipped signal being preferable to another?

I think this kind of nitty gritty technical detail is what's usually missing from the discussion of hot levels, loudness, and distortion. Thank you very much for sharing your perspective on it.





Great questions !!!!
Really Great questions !!!!
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jfrigo

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2006, 01:31:41 AM »

driveblind wrote on Fri, 24 March 2006 09:39

Quote:


1.) What about the Gold design, or any high quality analog design in general, allows for hotter input signal before audible distress? The op amps? The power supply? Other components? How do these components behave differently from lesser examples?

2.) What is measureably different in what one sees at the output of lesser designs (even ones that are very good in their own right, like the blue) as compared to the better designs? Both clip, and full scale is full scale, so why does one sound better than another? Is it a difference between 2nd and 3rd harmonic levels? Is total distortion measurably less? What accounts for one clipped signal being preferable to another?

I think this kind of nitty gritty technical detail is what's usually missing from the discussion of hot levels, loudness, and distortion. Thank you very much for sharing your perspective on it.




Great questions !!!!
Really Great questions !!!!



If it's "better," there must be some quantifiable reason. There must be something that can be measured that's different. Perfect question for this forum I thought.
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danlavry

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2006, 12:34:14 PM »

jfrigo wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 07:31

driveblind wrote on Fri, 24 March 2006 09:39

Quote:


1.) What about the Gold design, or any high quality analog design in general, allows for hotter input signal before audible distress? The op amps? The power supply? Other components? How do these components behave differently from lesser examples?

2.) What is measureably different in what one sees at the output of lesser designs (even ones that are very good in their own right, like the blue) as compared to the better designs? Both clip, and full scale is full scale, so why does one sound better than another? Is it a difference between 2nd and 3rd harmonic levels? Is total distortion measurably less? What accounts for one clipped signal being preferable to another?

I think this kind of nitty gritty technical detail is what's usually missing from the discussion of hot levels, loudness, and distortion. Thank you very much for sharing your perspective on it.




Great questions !!!!
Really Great questions !!!!



If it's "better," there must be some quantifiable reason. There must be something that can be measured that's different. Perfect question for this forum I thought.



If I tell you I have to kill you  Laughing

Regards
Dan Lavry
www.lavryengineering.com
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Ronny

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2006, 08:47:40 PM »



Has this loudness disease finally gotten to the point that it now sounds better to clip the ADC?

It still makes no sense to me, you can always make up gain non-destructively once the signal is digitized.
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------Ronny Morris - Digitak Mastering------
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----------Powered By Experience-------------
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jfrigo

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2006, 11:04:16 PM »

danlavry wrote on Tue, 28 March 2006 09:34

If I tell you I have to kill you  Laughing


For knowledge like that, it is tempting... Laughing
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driveblind

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #16 on: March 29, 2006, 03:28:23 AM »

Quote:

If I tell you I have to kill you


I promess it will stay between you and me, dont worry I wont tell anyone  Very Happy
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S. Pottier
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danlavry

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Re: The Lavry Gold A/D and Slamming It!!
« Reply #17 on: March 29, 2006, 01:59:10 PM »

Ronny wrote on Wed, 29 March 2006 02:47



Has this loudness disease finally gotten to the point that it now sounds better to clip the ADC?


My understanding is that the race for loudness is about making it louder without having a "clipped sound". I am not for clipping or for loud, but it does sell. There are few that do it well - it sounds loud, not clipped. Unfortunately, there are many that clip and it sounds clipped.  

Regards
Dan Lavry
http://www.lavryengineering.com
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