About my side of the argument :
to Checkmate110 page five :
| malice wrote on Sun, 20 November 2005 08:58 |
| Extreme Mixing wrote on Sun, 20 November 2005 08:49 |
Yeah, which was it, a node or a null??? And what exactly are you talking about?
For the record, I think Mixerman probably did have a problem with a transfer, and lost some low end. I'm just not sure it was due to the inherant "problem" with Pro Tools. Wiring or an impedence mismatch seems more likely to me, but I wasn't there.
it is interesting to hear from those of you who were there for the event.
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Especially from Steve Albini,
I wonder what he heard and why it turned out that he did not raise his hand.
The whole purpose of this test was not about Mixerman seeing pink elephant or not, it's about what could have caused what he (and numerous of esteemed colleagues ) has heard.
I haven't check the posted chunks myself, I will do this afternoon, but I would love to have a full description of the event from the "rebels" camp as well as from the "empire" point of view (if I may borrow Fletcher's imagery).
malice
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page six :
| malice wrote on Sun, 20 November 2005 20:10 |
| R.Nicklaus wrote on Sun, 20 November 2005 19:19 |
If the Mixerman LA test happens, I propose, no mixes just raw drum and bass files set up as one would listen in a tracking situation.
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If the Mixerman LA test happens, and I would love it happens, I would suggest more dynamic files (no offense steve, those sounded good) as Bob Ohlson suggested it was a dynamic problem. I agree that there is no use to keep the guitars or anything else than bass and drums.
I would also agree with mixerman that three excerpts should be blind tested and not more than that.
thirdly, I don't know if you need to be 35 in the control room at one time.
I was reading what Steve Albini reported, and I must say I was a bit disappointed he felt the need to refrain from saying anything while he was experiencing the bass loss problem.
Most of all, I wonder why the bass loss, wich was the main purpose of this test, was not the object of a personal and secret vote that should have been written on paper like the rest of the blind test
That would have prevent anyone from being influenced by the others, biased or not.
I haven't been listening to the test files yet in a satisfactory environment, I will do later,and I would like to thank, nevertheless, all the people involved.
best
malice
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and also :
| malice wrote on Sun, 20 November 2005 20:23 |
| R.Nicklaus wrote on Sun, 20 November 2005 20:16 |
If you listen to Steve's recording and read what he said, you can tell there was a lot of energy flying through the power supply.
It's huge. Again, forget the test for a minute and listen to the stereo imaging on the drums. Holy shit!
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No doubt about it  Steve is Steve !
| Quote: |
Now, is that the same as finishing a bass and drum take and listening for problems in the performance? Will that use more juice from the power supply?
That's above my pay grade for sure.
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I agree, I was just suggesting some other type of content for experiment sakes.
I'm really trying to understand more than arguing. I have experienced this problem myself, and perhaps I'm just willing to know what I have been doing wrong with the transfer if indeed it was an operator (moi) mistake (wich I won't necessary dismiss)
malice
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page 12 I try to convince Randy to let Mixerman recreate the anomaly :
| malice wrote on Mon, 21 November 2005 09:06 |
I don't understand this. If Mixerman can repeat the experience and show you a typical setup were this bass lite thing occur, wouldn't it be interesting to take 2 hours of your life and check that with him ?
Aren't we all here to learn something ?
You are agreeing to spend days debating in front of your computer with people you don't even know, and you would refuse to meet them in person to solve this mystery, in your own town (I'm talking to the LA guys here).
2 hours at Cello's (or equivalent) with free coffee, 2 weeks here of endless and useless discussions ...
C'mon guys, see the opportunity
1) there is a bass lite problem that your maid can hear : you will learn something
2) there isn't : Mixerman says : "I'll be damn, my bad, sorry guys, can I buy you a drink..."
End of debate.
SO ?
...
Whatever, no one's listening ...
malice
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then in the same page, I wonder why three persons heard a problem in the CR and nobody raised his hand :
| malice wrote on Mon, 21 November 2005 17:42 |
| BT wrote on Mon, 21 November 2005 17:12 |
Well for what it?s worth?..
I was at the test sitting with the guy who made the Digi 192.I can say this he was one of the nicest guys I have come across in a long time. We chatted about clocks converters and the like while Steve and the rest got things going.
Now when the transfers began into Protools with the 192 on its own internal clock at 48k, upon playback there it was no impact, harsh highs and yes a loss of bottom end!!At this point I stood up and looked at a tech friend of mine and he agreed, my new friend from Digidesign also stood with a confused look on his face.
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This is the third person that heard the bass drop, I'm beginning to wonder if all this was not a dream ...
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This leaves a couple of things to consider one being the Lavry converters, of which I will admit I am no fan of personally, that were used in the final two track mix. Did these in some way level the playing field to the point of not being able to tell a dam thing? What about Nuendo while were at it, did this massage our tracks to digital twins?
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Doubt it would be the Lavrys, But something might be wrong in the printed 2 tracks.
three persons heard it, it is not on the 2 tracks mix ????
what the fuck ?????
| Quote: |
I think if it were just one simple pass at 48k on the Digi clock it would have been easy to pick it out.
In the test files posted there is not an obvious loss of low end but you do not have the original tape to listen to either.
Without getting into a digital-analog debate I think most that were there were fine with using Pro Tools from a digital standpoint by the end of the evening and there were some interesting clock issues sorted out also.
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Thanx for sharing this, I'm more and more wondering about the validity of the procedure and I wouldn't take this test as final as some of us would love to do.
malice
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then you have to wait until post 35 to see me starting wondering about why the thread never ends and seems to drift into some Mixerman bashing more than arguing over the more intelligent posts and contributive posts.
and this is what Krisman has to answer :| RKrizman wrote on Thu, 01 December 2005 07:09 |
| malice wrote on Thu, 01 December 2005 00:53 |
It's amazing how to see how many pages have been posted in this thread and how most of the participants keep on ignoring the more contributive and inteligent posts.
Too busy they are slandering Mixerman. You know who you are ...
malice
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And your contribution is.....what?
-R
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and this is YOUR contribution :
| checkmate110 wrote on Sat, 03 December 2005 07:54 |
AMAZING!!! Your side of the argument is reduced to questioning someone's post count??
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The other members should do a search on your two other posts in this forum and wonder about who you are by now.
I did contribute, and stated my opinion at the beginning of the thread. I don't need to discuss about it more than that.
My agenda is clear : I heard the problem on several occasions, I do agree it is not audible in the files, so I'm just asking myself why, and that is all about what this conversation should be.
You come as an
anonymous poster and you reduce my argumentation to the last point I made about this oversized thread not solving the problem.
Again, I heard a bass loss. I'm not alone. Mixerman ( whom I've worked with and who knows and works with PT when needed btw ) , Slipperman, who I know personally and who own a facility with a plethora of analog and digital formats used on daily basis, Bob Ohlson who is probably the poster I admire the most here and whose credits and knowledge is undiputable, Steve Albini, Fletcher, and a couple of other members...
All these people including myself are trying to understand what they have heard.
I merely try to proove that the post count of some of the participants speaks volume about their point not being made in spite of the evidence there is no bass loss in the files.
So lemme ask you, as your contribution is so scarse and could be resumed as three smartass sentences: what is YOUR experience and how can YOU explain we have heard this problem and not you ?
I dare you to tell we are deaf or delusional. Because you would have to back this up against respected professionals that are, contrary to you, well known from the rest of us members of this forum.
I don't know if you're "checkmate", may be you should have chosen "stalemate" instead
malice
